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2011 polycoat CZ-75B vs 2015 matte stainless CZ-75Bar

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by MacTech, Mar 25, 2017.

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  1. MacTech

    MacTech Member

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    I *own* a 2011 polycoat CZ-75B, my local "toy store" has a 2015 matte stainless 75B, I like the low maintenance aspect of stainless, so I was considering trading...

    I brought my 75B with me to compare the two side by side, and my response to the stainless gun was surprising...

    First off, the serial number and import stampings were rather unsightly, the black text on matte stainless was, well, ugly, it cheapened the look of the gun

    Second, the slide had a noticeably gritty feel to it, but seeing as the slide and barrel appeared to have no lube and it was running dry, but the slide action felt noticeably unpleasant

    Third, the trigger pull had noticeable creep and grit in both single and double action pull, once again, could be due to running dry

    Compared to *MY* 75B, my 75 has a ball bearing smooth slide action, a smooth trigger pull in double action, and an amazingly crisp smooth single action pull, and no, I haven't shot it that much, and I bought it used, but unfired.

    Nope, won't be trading my polycoat 75B, however, I *WILL* be putting the stainless 75B on 60 day layaway.

    I'm sure the 75B stainless will smooth up with usage and proper lube.
     
  2. CNobbe

    CNobbe Member

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    The two I still have are pretty smooth, but not quite Beretta or P226 smooth. The polycoat model would be less maintenance, actually. Stainless guns are still prone to corrosion. CZ 75s aren't built to exacting tolerances like other guns, so a somewhat gritty slide isn't uncommon. It's not exactly a hand fitted 1911...

    Just lube it up, shoot it, clean it, and repeat. It'll be fine. The matte stainless is hard to find right now, as all 75s are at the moment. Keep it and enjoy it.
     
  3. viking499

    viking499 Member

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    How many rounds do you have through your 75B?
     
  4. MacTech

    MacTech Member

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    Probably less than 250 rounds total
     
  5. viking499

    viking499 Member

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    That shouldn't be enough to smooth out the internals. Did you do a lot of dry firing with it or did it come from the factory that way?
     
  6. MacTech

    MacTech Member

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    Little bit of both, dry firing consists of putting my left thumb in front of the hammer gap, pulling the trigger with my right finger, letting the hammer fall the short distance against my left thumb pad, then pushing the hammer back to the sear lock shelf

    This seems to help smooth out the single action pull nicely
     
  7. I6turbo

    I6turbo Member

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    I haven't paid attention lately, but have they started stamping the serial numbers in ink or paint or something? Mine are engraved/rollmarked/stamped/whatever...
    [​IMG]
    To significantly improve the lightness of the action and trigger, install this in your 75/85 guns: https://cajungunworks.com/product/54420-ultra-lite/
    Don't ask questions, just do it. :) My 75 B is super smooth in DA and SA with that kit, but the 85 Combat is just perfection. The kit seemed to make a much more dramatic difference than CGW said it would, especially in the 85 Combat. The Combat has a slight advantage of no firing pin block, plus I used the kit's HS-12000 hammer spring (no failures to ignite primers from about 6 different types of ammo and hundreds of rounds). It is SUCH a sweet shooting, sweet operating gun now.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
  8. gotboostvr

    gotboostvr Member

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    My 75B SA was REAL gritty but after 1k rounds through it (and at least as much dry firing) is very very smooth. The break of the trigger I also noticed is now much more consistent, but is still a little creepy due to the camming of the hammer.

    I'm a BIG fan of stainless guns. I'd love to see a P01 with a stainless slide and similarly finished frame. Or an all stainless SP01!
     
  9. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Member

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    The Stainless CZ in the photo above is an early model without the reversible mag release or extended beavertail, which is now standard. That one does have the ambidextrous safeties. The other things changed a few years back.

    The other complaints about the "roughness" of the gun can be improved through use, with aftermarket parts (CGW), or by having a local gunsmith do an action job (polishing and trigger work.) I much prefer the custom parts or gunsmith work, as I hate shooting a gun that isn't broken in. I'd rather spend the money on parts or gunsmithing, rather than spend a lot of ammo when I don't enjoy the gun in it's "rough" form.
     
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  10. CNobbe

    CNobbe Member

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    Y'all should look into the Sphinx pistols, they're built much better than CZs.
     
  11. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Member

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    I've had several Sphinx pistols -- 2 of the 2000 series and now have an SDP. They are fine weapons. They are more refined and may be an improvement in some ways -- with the same basic CZ design, but a slightly different barrel lockup design (ala the CZ-40B). My used P-07 and my SDP perform about the same, but the SDP is a much smoother weapon. Prices are considerably different, however. I don't regret getting either one. I'm waiting to get hands on a new CZ-P10c.
     
  12. sigarms228

    sigarms228 Member

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    The new CZs that I have handled at the LGS seem to vary a lot on trigger quality but the same can be said to some degree on most manufacturers. I have handled new SIG P320s and some are sweet but others suck. For many new pistols the trigger and action can improve noticeably after a clean/lube and couple hundred rounds though them. Others however, like my Son's SP01, took over 1000 rounds fired to show a noticeable improvement.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
  13. sigarms228

    sigarms228 Member

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    However I have not heard much good about their customer service in the last year or so and also word is it can be very difficult to work on the Sphinx pistols, especially if you need to remove a pin. The SDP is tempting now that they can be purchased for near $700 but I shot a CZ P07 at LGS factory shoot a couple weeks ago and I was very impressed with how well I could shoot it. Not sure the Sphinx would be worth the extra investment for me. In any case if I get another CZ it most likely will be a PCR as I was really impressed shooting that gem too.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
  14. I6turbo

    I6turbo Member

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    I agree -- if I have a gun that's not operating as smoothly or reliably as I'd like, I work on it. If it were something I didn't think I could handle myself (haven't encountered that yet), I'd hire a competent gunsmith.

    I'm not burning my time and hundreds of dollars worth of ammo in hopes it'll get better. In fact, any gun maker who recommends that their guns be fired hundreds of rounds before you expect them to function reliably... I probably don't want one. :)
     
  15. sigarms228

    sigarms228 Member

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    Weekend before last I was able to try the P10-C, P07, and PCR all on the same day as the CZ reps had a bunch of pistols at LGS factory shoot. I preferred both the PCR and P07 over the P10-C and shot them both better. The P10-C did not fit my hand near as well when it came to releasing the striker with the trigger which I though was odd in that I thought it was supposed to have a grip very similar to the P07 which I thought was great.

    Will be interested in hearing your thoughts once you get to try out a P10-C.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
  16. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Member

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    All I've done to my SDP is change out the hammer spring, which greatly improved a very smooth but 7-8 lb. trigger. It's now about 4 lb., but feels much lighter. The trigger broke crisply and cleanly even with the factory spring in place. (Changing the spring is much simpler than changing the hammer spring in a CZ.) The modular grips makes the gun more easy to fit to a given shooter's hand, too. (I ordered a spring kit from Cajun Gun Works early last year, but I had already ordered a lightly (CZ Compact) hammer spring from Wollf springs, and when I installed that, I decided it didn't need anything else.:))

    I've talked with several Sphinx owners, and except for one who had a minor problem with a sub-compact (quickly remedied and returned), I've not heard of anyone needing customer service work done . Cajun Gun Works, who can supply some parts, has run into difficult-to-remove pins and no longer works on them because of the extra time and effort required. (I'd probably ask them to do the work and charge the proper price. not the same price he charges for CZs, (Cajun Gun Works does GREAT WORK and would be worth the extra cost -- and I doubt anyone else out there is as familiar with the design.)

    I think SphinxArms may have gone into receivership a few months back, but the importer (Kriss) is still working with the gun and as recently as a few days ago I talked with a Kriss rep who said they're going to be building the 3000 series in the near future. There has been a long line of different companies that have owned the firm and kep the employees that build Sphinx pistol, and someone always comes in and keeps things going. Those craftsmen are a bit like Rolls Royce production people -- very, very competent.

    Getting the new SDP ready for the U.S. market involved a major redesign of the gun to allow higher quality guns to be bult without nearly as much individual (hand) work. I'm impressed with the SDP, and maybe I ought to save up my pennies for a 3000 series gun, too. (That will be costly... :()
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
  17. Pilot

    Pilot Member

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    You are not alone. The PCR is hands down, one of the best all around 9MM's on the market. It retains the traditional CZ grip feel, yet is compact, and lighter weight than the 75B. Great for carry, range, or home defense. I've had one for 17 years, and nothing is better for my needs.
     
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  18. sigarms228

    sigarms228 Member

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    Thanks for the very helpful info Walt !

    There was a long thread running on SIGforum for a while where a number of members had to send their sub compacts in for repair and their comments were not very reassuring. Hopefully Kriss is or has improved on that. However I do not remember any problems with the SDP. I read CGW comments on the SDP where he said that even changing a trigger return spring can be challenging and I personally am very wary about that not wanting to have to pay to ship a pistol back for a minor repair that is fairly easily done on most any other pistol.

    The 3000 series? That sounds sweet.
     
  19. peacebutready

    peacebutready Member

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    Surprised to hear this as they have a reputation for both accuracy and reliability.
     
  20. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Member

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    That's a widely-held GUN SNOB claim, but....

    CZ doesn't spend time polishing areas that have no functional reason to be polished on their low-end guns, like inside the slide -- but where metal against metal matters, they're generally finished as well as SIGs and Berettas, their closest peers.

    I don't know if that production approach is a cost-saving effort or simply the consequence of a subtly different gun-making philosophy, a version of "if it's not broke, don't fix it" -- in which they've decided that "if polishing doesn't make it work better, don't polish it." CZ's tolerances in critical areas inside the gun are as good as most guns, and better than many. And accuracy is dependent on lockup, which is quite good and very consistent.

    I don't know why folks don't make this same "aren't built to exacting tolerances" complaint about GLOCKS, as Glocks -- which I like -- are designed to shoot quite effectively without the design requiring very exacting tolerances.

    Back when a couple of suppliers were offering metal frames for Glocks, the frame-makers warned that many after-market parts (widely used by Glock owners and folks who shoot their Glocks competitively) would sometimes not work in the metal frame versions, because those suppliers were very lax in keeping their parts within spec. The parts that wouldn't work in a metal-framed Glock would work fine in a polymer-framed gun.

    For Glocks, that lack of attention to exacting tolerances was never an issue, and folks never complained about it. I don't know why they have to commplain about CZs. If they could cite reasons that affected performance, then I'd understand. People complain about their ugliness or their awkward grip angle -- modified somewhat with the 4th Generation guns.

    My one complaint about CZs, and I'm a long-time CZ fan and enthusiast, is that their triggers could be better out of the box. Similar Witness guns typically are better. CZ triggers do break in well, but I don't like the wait or having to dry-fire or live-fire so many times to get the trigger where it needs to be. (I prefer to have a gunsmith help the process, as I HATE shooting guns I own that have less than optimal triggers.) There are after-market parts that move them from "so-so" to "outstanding" very quickly.
     
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  21. peacebutready

    peacebutready Member

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    The camming of the hammer was designed like that.
     
  22. CNobbe

    CNobbe Member

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    Well, that was the point of the post... OP wondered why the CZ he was looking at had a gritty feel, trigger that wasn't crisp...etc I'd be more alarmed if he was looking at a Dan Wesson or something custom built that didn't seem normal. A CZ with a gritty feel/not so nice trigger? That's not exactly a surprise to anyone who's owned a lot of CZs.

    I'd love for CZ triggers to be a bit better out of the box, and I think they tried to do that with the Omega triggers which use less parts. I have an Omega 75, and find it to be a wee bit more accurate than my standard B model.

    The thing that sticks out the most in my mind when comparing a new CZ to other guns I've purchased is that the CZ will get better and better with use. My M9 and P226 felt fitted better right out of the box. Very smooth, triggers were crisp, etc.

    My first 75 was definitely not up to par with those two, but with use - it got there.
     
  23. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Member

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    Irritating, and unnecessary -- except for reasons we don't understand; It may be an (apparently) unjustified legal concern by CZ corporate lawyers?

    That irritation is one of the reasons mentioned after-market parts. The hammers offered by CZ Custom or Cajun Gun Works, drops in, and virtually does away with the camming.

    That's not an issue with DA shooting, but is very much a pain with SA shots. The problem with DA first shots is the LONG trigger -- less of a problem with decocker models. And the Omega triggers do seem better, out of the box, and some gunsmiths (CZ Custom and CGW have found ways to tweak that system, too.)
     
  24. peacebutready

    peacebutready Member

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    My guess is it has nothing to do with legal concerns. My hunch is they just wanted a rolling trigger break. In the past I came across a 1911 connoisseur that had his 1911 modded for that kind of trigger.

    The Omega trigger system on that version of the metal CZ 75: Since it is quite a bit different, is the firearm still a CZ 75?
     
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