.204 vs .223? Walking Varmint Rifle

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GunNut

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Looking to get a reasonably priced walk around varmint rifle for this coming summer. Mostly will be used for coyotes and prairie dogs down the road.

Will one do something more that the other will not?

I'm set up to reload .223 right now, but wouldn't care if I had to get .204 dies and supplies.

Rifle wise i'm looking at Savage, Remington 700 SPS, Stevens 200 or ???? I'd really like to keep the rifle price below $500.

Steve
 
Rifle wise i'm looking at Savage, Remington 700 SPS, Stevens 200 or ???? I'd really like to keep the rifle price below $500.

Right at $500 is the CZ 527 in wooden stock. Spend about $100 more and you can get it in an H&S kevlar stock with aluminum bedding block.

In .223 the CZ wooden stock model is a 1:12 twist. The kevlar is a 1:9 twist. In .204 they are all 1:12 twist.

Three models to choose from:
- American, sporter weight barrel, wooden stock
- Varmint, medium contour barrel, wooden stock
- Varmint kevlar, medium contour barrel in the H&S precision stock

On-line catalog here:

http://www.cz-usa.com/products_smallbore_rifles.php

Will one do something more that the other will not?

I've heard the .204 described as "the hitting power of the .223 with the trajectory of the .22-250." Subject to argument, I'm sure, as not everyone has the same numbers but that about sums it up.
 
I was looking for the same thing last fall, and ended up with the CZ 527 American. WONDERFUL little rifle. Reduced sized Mauser type rifle with a set trigger. Free floated barrel. Scope mounts included. Detachable magazine.

Oh, BTW.....SCARY accurate. I couldn't give higher recommendation to any other mid-line rifle after owning one. Beats hell out of a lot of high end rifles, too, IMHO.
 
I'd really prefer stainless steel over a blued gun, but could just refinish a blued gun with something more corrosion resistant.

Synthetic stock of some kind would be much preferred to a wood stock(I know blasphemy but I can't stand a scratched up wood stock:neener:).

I'd like to be able to shoot out to 3-400 yards.

Steve
 
If you're not set on those 2 calibers I would suggest a 22-250 since that's a great Varmint round. It's flat and fast and no more expensive as the other 2. If you are stuck on the 2 calibers originally mentioned I would choose the .204.
 
I would also consider another .22-250, seeing as I sold the one I had last year. I had a Tikka, and the stock was way to long.

Steve
 
I would also consider another .22-250, seeing as I sold the one I had last year. I had a Tikka, and the stock was way to long.

I am not going to argue against 22-250, but for p-dogs, the .204 doesn't have as much recoil so you can see hits in the scope much more often.
That said, for coyotes I would take a .22-250 or .223 for the bullet selection assuming you want to save the pelts. But for blowing little critters to smithereens the .204 is hard to beat.
 
400 yards is far enough for a faster cartridge to start to differentiate itself. 223 will do it, but .204 - or 22-250, or 243 - will do it a little bit better. Since you load your own the ammo price is going to be reasonable either way so you may as well go with flatter.

Those CZ 527s are great guns just like the 550s.
 
I agree with all that has been said and have been know to be quite a fan of CZ's (and Brno's). I have a .223 Brno (very rare factory offering.) that I have enjoyed for several years. I recently I acquired a CZ 527 Walnut Varmint in .204....very pleased so far. For further particulars and pics, see the following link...and the link on 527's that it contains.

Link: Show me your CZ 527 Varmints
 
i'm thinking about looking into the remington xr 100 rifle in .223 caliber myself... i don't know if they are less than $500 or not....... i've seen the one in the catalog with the thumbhole vented laminated stock and i think i'd really like it.... it's built on the single shot xp 100 action but i think a single shot rifle is all i'd need for what i do....... check it out!.............
 
I love Ruger, but I have no place for the .204. It's faster and flatter, but I am perfectly happy with my .223's. If your a reloading nerd and enjoy putting cartridges together for it, then the .204 might be right up your alley. If you want something that you can either reload or slide on down to wally-world, then go .223.
 
go 223. There is a much better selection of bullets. With the 1:9 kevlar CZ-527, you can launch 69gn SMK for long distance, or even 75gn Bergers (although they can be a little long). Brass is cheap for 223, and there is a huge selection of bullets.

527s.jpg
 
though a 204 is a much better round, it doesnt show up until you hit out to 300 plus yards. A stevens or mossberg in 223 , you can get both for under 275 dollars, with tax. plus with a tweak here and there, and your handloading ability, you can find either of those rifles' sweeet spot. the mossberg is a much underrated rifle, with a unique built in pillar/bed system, built in sling swivels, and a action that ia a Howa clone, really.
You could get either of these, with a scope, and even a small bipod, all for 500 bucks. Or a Savage package series, for under 500 bucks.
 
I mentioned when I bought my .204 Ruger, I already had a .223. A .223 is what I always recommend for a first and last Varmint rifle if for no other reasons than great performance for the money and availability as others have mentioned. A .223 is great to first to start with and last in the sense that it is the last to be sold...to me. It's kind of a great all around multipurpose round. Some say that a .223 maybe slightly less ballisticly (sp?) stable than the .222 theoretically...or at least it used to be said to be such, but now a days it's pretty dang good. It performs overall very well but unfortunately it is not on the top or the bottom of the power grid compared to 22-250 and 220 swift. It is, however, essentially a NATO round and will always be easy to acquire in large quantities and is interchangeable with those "other" firearms that also quietly hide out in our gun safes. ;) (Yes I know it is not exactly the same as a 5.56 and no I don't shoot them...especially out of my rare Brno but if the SHTF kinda thing ever happened...I could.) I can and do definitely use the brass though. That said the .223 also has an enormous bullet selection and performs very well on all sorts of applications. This is some of the reasons I recommend it first and last. But...I already had one...so it was time for something new and fancy...just because...and I finally could finally rationalize it. :D

(Oh...On the .222 Rem: I used to have a Brno Fox II in .222 Rem but ammo was a pain to acquire in comparison to a .223 and a bit more expensive since I didn't reload much. )

On a different note, I think the .22 Hornet is a neat little item and will most likely add one at some point but can't justify it...yet. To me while it's neat, it's just that...neat. I just don't gain anything that I don't have already. (It's on the list to get eventually...just because.) Next, I really like the performance of .220 Swifts and 22-250's but I've had several friends and acquaintances that have had both of these rifles and have left me with second thoughts of ever owning one. I have spoken to more than one .220 swift shooter who is on his second barrel and hear life expectancy seems to be in the 2000 round max range. (Probably true of many larger center-fires anyway I guess, but most of us will never shoot our other hunting center-fires that much.) Hence why I would never (or be very discriminating) before ever buying either of these calibers used. JMHO.Additionally they both require full size actions and tend to be a larger and heavier rifle. IE the when it comes to CZ it mandates the larger, heavier full size action of the CZ 550 over the smaller lighter and nicer to carry in the field CZ 527.

Additionally on the 22-250 & 220 Swift, some of the serious prairie dog shooters I know, in order to be able to get more shooting in shorter periods of time....many times have two of these set up and take them both to the hunt. Why?...cause they get bloody hot in rapid fire shooting and need to constantly be switching rifles to keep them cooler every 3rd or 4th shot...even if a BBL. I never could afford this or justify it before. I guess, now I could but still can't justify it. I have also spoken to many who find they are both a tad less pleasurable to shoot, reload...both for recoil, visualization and noise. As noted, they are both based on full size actions as well as a full size necked down shell. Hence why you do not see them on the 527 action..too big of a shell. Their ammo can be a bit expensive off the shelf in comparison to the .204 and especially the .223. They are a bigger pain to reload as well and use easily 2x the powder of the .204 with only slight variation in ballistics. But DANG!!!!!...do they ever perform! :t So....for my needs, until the .204 cam along I have mainly stuck with a .223 but realize that I do give up on a bit of performance.

Here is my .223 Brno:

Link: Brno ZKK-601 .223 Rem: "The one that DIDN'T get away..."

A quote from another thread that you might find helpful....
so I've been reading up on .223 vs .204. I've been hearing nothing but praise for the .204 but it still seems the .223 is more popular. Could be because it has been around longer, I guess. If you don't mind my asking, what led you to the .204 over the .223?

See above on the "whys" of the .223. Bottom line even though the .204 Ruger is higher in performance, do not discount the .223 little round as there is a reason for it's popularity beyond being nearly a NATO round...it is very practical but is also very effective. Okay...the .204 Ruger, it's bottom line is it is near 22-250/220 Swift performance (or close enough for my needs) but with out the majority of the downsides including cost and barrel degradation. I don't really have to give up anything in performance to or for this round. That does not mean it doesn't get hot as speed in general is component of this. (Even my .223 gets hot with several successive shots..just to a lesser degree.) I understand that the .204 does this with less powder (less burn) than even a .223....bonus! There isn't near the bullet selection as the .223 (yet) and may or may not struggle with very heavy bullets. But...so what? The numbers and accuracies stats look good to me and I'm willing to give it a go with my trusty .223 in reserve for a while.

I went for 223 for cheap and widely available brass, and a huge selection of bullets from 40gn up to over 80.

Exactly.

Now...for what I finally arrived at. I really came close to purchasing the following rifle as it is totally beautiful and would be a matching near twin to my recently acquired CZ 17 HMR "Fancy" American.

Link: CZ 527 AMERICAN, .204, rare! fancy walnut!

But...I ultimately wanted something else...or more accurately I wanted even more. :eek: I wanted that exact rifle but I wanted the heavier barrel of the Varmint. Which lead me to look very strongly at a CZ Kevlar Varmint because this was to be a working rifle. In the end the 3-6 month wait and little gained from this $160+ upgrade (beyond scratch resistance) was overshadowed by my desire for nice wood, cost savings and availability (couldn't find any for sale and heard there was a wait for this in .204). Keep in mind that if you want a .223 that it does come in a different/faster twist for heavier bullets than all other 527 variations (1-9 vs the standard 1:12)...but this is not so in the .204 so it becomes irrelevant as it is the same in either configuration (1:12 only in all CZ configurations and seems to be the case for many manufactures.) Also, according to the CZ website the Kevlar is actually heavier than the walnut version. So one day I stopped in a major CZ retailer locally and came across a very NIB CZ 527 Varmint .204 with quite nice walnut for $499 out the door...just couldn't turn it down. Oh...did I mention it had an absolutely stunning single hole factory target. May not mean much for sure...but then again it might. :bthumb: Hope this is helpful.

Cheers,

TOU
 
Tou,

Great post, plus we're almost neighbors(live in Camas).:D


I've had many different "varmint" rifles in various calibers like .17hmr, .22wmr, .223, .22-250 and a .25-06, but have sold them all in the last few years.

Now i'm wanting to get back into varmint hunting(if I can find a place close by)and am just wanting to make the right choice.

I know that .223 would be the simple answer, but I do currently have a nice AR15 in 5.56/.223, so I was wondering if it were worth the hassle to diversify.

I've found some good deals on .204's and wondered if they were everything people talk them up to be.

I'm going to keep looking for now, and hopefully i'll make my mind up in the next week or so.

Steve
 
Tou,

Great post, plus we're almost neighbors(live in Camas).

GunNut...hadn't noticed your local. very cool, one of these days we will have to meet up. I travel all the dang time and shooting has been tough lately.

I've had many different "varmint" rifles in various calibers like .17hmr, .22wmr, .223, .22-250 and a .25-06, but have sold them all in the last few years.

Now i'm wanting to get back into varmint hunting(if I can find a place close by)and am just wanting to make the right choice.

I know that .223 would be the simple answer, but I do currently have a nice AR15 in 5.56/.223, so I was wondering if it were worth the hassle to diversify.

Since you have one it would be nice to have a matching bolt gun for simplicity sake. But you should be able to get quite a bit of varminting mileage out of the AR also. Then there is the thought of since you have a .223 a .204 Ruger would be awesome just for ballistic effect. You do know you can get .204 Ruger uppers for your AR, right? However the cost would pay for a new bolt gun. ;)

The reality is for varminting (I'm not a pro, I just like it....when I get the chance) is that you will maintain a few items in the arsenal for varmints.

I have too many 22 LR's to list,
2 .17 HM2's
1 .17 HMR (twice the ammo cost as the HM2 with only 10% gains)
3 .22 WMR's (Have been finding quality JHP ammo for $6/ box...total riot out of my semi-auto.)
2 .223's (Brno bolt and a semi)
1 .204 Ruger (CZ)
I have shot on many occasion 22-250's .17 Rem, .22 Hornet, 25-06. I like them all for various reasons and may add them for fun some day but have no great urge for any of them.

I love them all for various reasons; I'm glad I'm at a point I don't have to really choose as each has their pluses. If I had to minimize it to 3, I would always keep a 22 LR around, the .17 HM2 (to long of an explanation for this conversation) and a .223. For long range "laser shooting...I have a feeling that this little .204 is going to be the ticket. Do you reload? If so any increase in ammo cost is almost negated for the .204.

I've found some good deals on .204's and wondered if they were everything people talk them up to be.

I'm going to keep looking for now, and hopefully i'll make my mind up in the next week or so.

I'll keep you posted, but so far...what is not to like?

Which dealer? Keith's?

Yep...he had one of each in a Varmint Walnut for the same price. $480'ish. Said that their was a wait list on the Precision Stocked Varmints. If I was going .223...I would have wet with it just to get the 1:9. (I wish CZ would over it in the Walnut Varmint too.) On the .204 it was easier as I prefer Walnut, twist was the same and saved me $160 that I spent on a scope.

Good luck!
 
Tou,

Thanks.

Yes I do reload, i've actually been going through and cleaning a bunch of brass the past few days.

While I really do want a .204 Ruger, i'm probably going to pick up the first .223 or .22-250 I come across at a really good deal. I've got a ton of brass for either round, all i'd need are a set of .22-250 dies.

Steve
 
If you choose to get another 223, unless you are using a single stage and have to set everything up every time anyways, you might want to consider buying another set of dies.... Who wants to shoot ammo that is AR friendly when you can fine tune stuff to the rifle?
 
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