209 ignition gun

[reelredneck1]

A while ago I saw the 209 derringer on cabelas.com and figured for $200 I could make my own.So I found an old 12 gauge flare gun and an old .177 cal rifled barrel. i machined a bore into the barrel to accept 209. shot shell primers and made a nylon spacer so the barrel will fit in the flare gun and threw on some sights.I just glue pellets on the end of 209 primers and now i have a break action .177 ignition pistol. I was just wondering of the legalities of this like do I need a tax stamp if its even legal at all?

 

[ants]

Welcome to the Forum.

 

[rogertc1]

Depends on where you live.

 

[Zoogster]

Should be a federally legal handgun.
Since the barrel is rifled it should not be an AOW.

As long as it has a pistol grip and has the shape of a firearm.


State law on the other hand can vary greatly. Under some states it may be a "zip gun" which is loosely defined differently by different states.

Other states have requirements to build or manufacture a handgun.

So if there is a violation it is likely at the state level.


Discharging this firearm even in a state where it is legal would still be discharge of a firearm. No different than shooting a .22 or something. So just because it works on primers or is weaker than some airguns would not prevent charges for discharging it where you cannot discharge a firearm, but could discharge an airgun.
So you could not play with it like a "toy".

If you are under 21 or under 18 there may be state level possession restrictions.


Once it is a firearm it would also remain a firearm. Subject to all the transportation, possession, and discharge laws in your state on firearms. It would become a firearm, or more specifically a handgun receiver, and even disassembling it should not reverse that it is a handgun receiver.

 

[Nicodemus38]

adding sights to the flare gun AND by installing the insert, you may be in essence commiting the act of "permanent alteration" similar to cutting a loading gate into the recoil shield of a bp revolver after adding a cartridge cylinder to it.

Youll want to look up your states bylaws as it could be a simple misdeameanor for not getting it registered in states requiring that for handguns, it could be a zip gun although its rifled and few zipguns ive ever heard of had rifling.

 

[reelredneck1]

I live near orlando fl and made this just to plink around with at my grandpa's house where i normally shoot my 22s and 357.just thought it would be a fun project(hopefully a legal one).definitely not a toy it shoots pretty hard haven't run it through a crono but it shoots harder than my gamo whisper.

 

[kingpin008]

So wait, you're asking about the legalities of making the thing after you've made it?

Doesn't that seem a little...oh, backwards to you?

I mean really - suppose that what you've done is illegal. Then suppose one of us is an ATF agent. All it'd take is a summons to THR staff for your information and we'd be visiting your place with a nice pair of shiny handcuffs for ya.

In the future, you might want to research the legality of projects before you actually start on them.

 

[reelredneck1]

How will you Find me?

 

[kingpin008]

How will you find me?

As mentioned, if a law enforcement agent wanted your information, all they have to do is subpoena the Admin(s) of THR, and voila! They've got your info. Even if you used a one-off, totally anonymous email account to sign up here, your IP is still traceable should someone want to do so. If someone wanted to, they could find you. Welcome to the (not at all) anonymous internets.

 

[reelredneck1]

all that trouble for a pellet gun that truly may or may not exist?

 

[kingpin008]

Uh, dude - you admitted that you made it, and you posted pictures. Unless your idea of a good time is photoshopping what look like webcam pics of a home-made popgun and ammo and then asking whether or not what you did is legal, it exists.

Even if you go back and edit your post, the original version is still available if someone wanted it bad enough.

I'm not saying all this to pick a fight - just to point out to you that you might want to be a little more careful in the future when it comes to possible violations of state and/or Federal law.

 

[reelredneck1]

i have yet to find where it says this is illegal. i have done my research and didn't find anything that said it was illegal to make or posses it.before i posted this. i am just making sure no one knows anything i don't.
ps how did u know those were web cam pics?

 

[ants]

All they have to do is subpoena the Admin(s) of THR, and voila! They've got your info.

That's why I registered with your info.

No, just kidding!

Haven't I read on the atf.gov page that making a firearm for yourself (not for sale or transfer to someone else) is not unlawful at the Federal level? As long as you're not otherwise prohibited from possession. Go check it out and see. Maybe in the FAQ.

But you'll have to check Florida law also. And County/City.

 

[kingpin008]

Reel - I understand that. I'm not saying that anything you did is illegal, because in reality, I don't much care. I'm simply trying to make the point that in the future, if you are unsure of the legality of your actions, it's a good idea to ask first, and not admit/post pics of the item that you've already made despite not knowing the legality of doing so. That way, you don't incriminate yourself. Savvy?

 

[Blind Bat]

Don't people build their own single shot guns all the time? I thought there were even competitions for such things? Granted modifying something that already exists may be a different story...

 

[kingpin008]

Blind - that's just the thing. Building from scratch is not always the same as modifying. As others mentioned, what Reel made could probably qualify as a zipgun in some states, which would land him in hot water.

 

[reelredneck1]

savvy.

 

[kingpin008]

Good deal.

 

[ants]

Yep. I really hope reelredneck sticks around here. Lots of us like innovative thinking, and we also like crafting things that are gun-related.

I ain't no gun lawyer, but that flare gun is probably NOT a 'firearm' as defined in federal law. I took a quick look at the definitions on the atf.gov web site just now. So he probably didn't modify a 'firearm'. I ain't no legal counselor, but personally I believe he's not in hot water.

Stick around, buddy.

 

[reelredneck1]

thanks buddy i appreciate it.

 

[Deus Machina]

Would like to hear a confirmation on the legality. I couldn't find anything saying it isn't, either.

Good job!

Now you've got me pondering the .22 airgun barrel in my closet (I'll check the material really well first, and reinforce it if I use it at all) and the length of leftover stainless steel next to my lathe.

 

[Diggers]

Interesting project. I have no idea what the federal law says about doing what you did.

HOWEVER I would think it would be very unlikely that ATF agents would waste their time going after one individual who made something like that more or less to see if they could and keep it and shoot it on private property.

Local cops?....well they have plenty to do with out going to all the trouble of trying to track you down.

Thats the kind of thing people get busted for when they are caught carrying it around on their person. So don't do that!!

Pretty neat that it works, kindof reminds me of something Mythbusters would do.

 

[rogertc1]

Pedersoli 209 Derringer Ignition Pistol (Cabela's)
Patterned after the pocket and parlor pistols of the late 1800s, this compact handgun is both fun and inexpensive to shoot. Simply load a 209 primer and a 4.5mm BB or a .177-caliber pellet and it's ready for action. The 3.14" barrel is rifled with 12 grooves for consistent accuracy. Features include a spur trigger and solid steel action.
Overall length: 5.07".

 

[zombienerd]

I'm not sure if that's an "Adult Toy" or a "Special Pipe" (looks like it could be either) on the table in front of your little ship model there, but either way, I'd have moved it first

Nice pistol, cool idea.. Reminds me of the .38cal inserts I've seen for the flare guns. Might have to try something similar with my old broken .177 air rifle.

 

[eric.cartman]

http://www.torproject.org/

Just saying...