20ga Defensive Loads

[Lovesbeer99]

Ok, I bought an 870 youth model (short stock and 21" barrel) for my HD gun (based on my last thread and all the responses). I may swap the barrel for and 18" and I might just swap the stock for a tactical model, but I will definately add a mag tube extention.

So here is my question. Does anyone make a 20ga HD specific load? If not does anyone hand load 00, 000, or #1 buck in 20ga shells? How about HD slugs?

Shoot safe, I do.

Lovesbeer99

 

[sm]

My HD shotgun is a H&R Topper , Youth, 20 ga single shot with 2 3/4" slugs.

"We" run bone stock shotguns with 2 3/4" slugs or #3 buckshot.
"We" shoot pattern boards to determine which load does what at what distance.

It don't matter what a barrel or choked is marked. It don't matter what a box of shells sez, what someone else sez, what the Intrawebz sez.

Mr. & Mrs. Pattern Board are the only ones that can reveal the truth for your and your environment with you gun.

Best kept secret is a bone stock gas gun 20 bore for serious use.
Followed by a pump and then the single shot has the longest history of Serious Use in the widest set of environments all over the world.

I understand Clint Smith also keeps a 20 bore single shot bedside.

 

[btg3]

My 20 gas gun has capacity = (2 + 1) with 26" barrel.

I was thinking I'd be better off with a pump/mag extension/18" barrel.

Could put a short barrel on the gas gun, but still have limited capacity.

Also, while I keep a round chambered for my carry pistol, I'm not wild about leaving a semi-auto shotgun laying ready to go with just the safety on.

Thoughts?

 

[sm]

I am 52, a Southern Boy , and ain't got good sense.

Gun gotta run with ammo.

It does not matter the gauge, or the ammo, if the gun don't run, and the user cannot run the gun, one for sure cannot place a shot.

I don't care what make, model , how many rounds of whatever ammo...gun gotta run and user gotta know how to run the gun.


I am old school and have some life experiences. All I can share is what little I have experienced in life...

Guns were designed a certain way, and often times when one something is changed, it affects something else, which when that is fixed, affects something else...
Domino Theory if you will.

i.e.
Gas guns are designed to run a certain way and if one "whacks" off a barrel it will affect Dwell and this has been know to cause a gun to NOT run reliably with loads, or limit what it will run with.

Not to mention I want choke and "whacked" barrels do not have any choke.

Just a thought, if a person has say a 1400 in 20 gauge, bone stock, and they learn to run this gun, which is limited by design to only 2+1, they will become one with the gun.
26" or 28" barrel, don't matter, mine was 28" and used for everything including serious situation use.

Too many folks have 20 ga gas guns they shoot skeet with and leave the plug in the gun...
They have lots of trigger time and are essentially one with the gun that runs.

I personally know of situations where a bone stock 20 ga skeet gun stopped immediate threats.


One cannot buy skill and targets, one would be wise to get a gun and become one with the gun, and have Mr. & Mrs Pattern Board reveal what that gun does what with loads.

If that means a 1400, 1100, 303, - whatever, shoots plain old 2 3/4" #3 buck or slugs best, then run 'em.

I'd rather see someone spend the monies on lessons , ammo to shoot lessons, range time, - whatever - running the gun and learning to keep it running than to spend the monies for mag extensions and shorter barrels.

If nothing else have some dummy shells made and learn to keep the gun fed feeding mag from mag tube.
Just over and over again practicing feeding that mag tube, feeling for a shell in the mag tube...
Not an expensive "accessory" these dummy shells - these pay huge dividends if one were to invest in these and put in the practice time.

 

[btg3]

sm -- Thanks for your reply. Especially the reminder regarding barrel length effect on gas operation. It got me to wanting to better understand how that works. I have a Sportsman 58 that has always worked fine with a variety of barrels 26", 28" and 30". You mentioned dwell, but I don't know how the sequence of events is timed. I'm thinking there is gas pressure on the action both ahead of the shot and after the shot, but dwell must be after the shot??? And does the size of the holes in the barrel vary according to barrel length -- if so, can the holes be sized for a short barrel, or are no short barrel manufactured for gas guns?

I've shot this gun for the past 40 years for skeet and doves and am comfortable with it. Am confident I can transition to a pump with standard stock, short barrel, and mag extension. Not looking to go tactical. Just want to have a little more ammo in my shotgun.

BTW, we are members of the same club: 52/southern/male/lacking good sense.

 

[MCgunner]

sm, your single shot with ejector is NO DOUBT faster firing than my coach gun. LOL With extra shell in hand, you could get off 3 WAY before I could. However, knowing what you are doing means you ain't gonna have to worry about that one in your hand and fewer shots fired, less chance for collateral damage. There's a lot to be said for the single shot in the hands of the guy who knows how to use it.

I like shotguns for home defense because I shoot 'em quite a bit at birds, clays, etc. A gun that fits and that you are well familiar with is a gun that is effective. The gun should be an extension of your body, the mounting and firing of the gun almost an autonomic reflex. Don't really matter how big the shot size. I load up with 3 buck and live happy. I know that in my home, it will be a one shot deal. A man don't live long when he's practically blown in half, or at least has a fist size hole in him. I don't expect it to take more'n one shot. I get on a bird at 30 yards, he's dead, dead, dead, and that's flying! I won't have a problem with a BG at 10 feet. I hunt birds with the same little 20" coach gun I have sitting by the bed. Before I got that, it was my 28" 12 gauge choked mod/full. God only knows how many ducks and geese that thing has knocked down, dove, too. It was my only shotgun from 1971 to 1981. The little 20 ga coach gun is better, though, I think, for the home defense roll and does well in the field.

00 and tacticool stocks is no substitute for trigger time and the best way to get that with a shotgun is at moving objects IMHO. Not only is it great to get used to your firearm, but it's also more fun that tacticool stocks and paper targets that don't move. I know for ME, tacticool stocks that have pistol grips, maybe don't fit well, slow me down on target acquisition. I stick with what works. There is a reason there are no tacticool stocks on fine English pigeon/upland guns, over and above the look.

All JMHO. I've got my flame suit on, now.

 

[sm]

Serious Use of Tools for Defense.

This includes 20 gauge shotguns of course.

Here is the bottom line, and one can bold and underline this in red.

One cannot buy skill and targets.

Mindset, Tactic, and Equipment make up the Hiearchy Triad of Survival.

One may not have a gun, and still with Mindset at the top of the Triad, survive a situation.

One's Tactics , in not having a gun, and perhaps this means Evading, "could" mean the best Equipment, is a good pair of foot wear, a broomstick, walking cane, flower vase, lamp off a lamp table...

Marketing is a powerful force. It has been used throughout history to Brainwash , Indoctrinate, and Control the masses.

Anti-Gun Folks throughout history have used "Marketing" to disarm peoples.
Tyranny has disarmed peoples and We The People all over the World, all through History, have with Mindset, have Successfully overcome Tyranny and Evil with "no weapons".


Pro-Gun Folks have also used Marketing to Brainwash, Indoctrinate and Control the masses.

Yes, there is truth to the idea that he that had the most advanced weapons, is better able to Survive.

Still...Mindset, Tactics have beaten Enemies throughout History against those with better Equipment.

Buck-n-Ball beat out those with Repeating Rifles.
Bows and Arrows Beat out those with Modern Arms.

Criminals continue to win over law abiding with a screwdriver, even law-abiding with CCWs and Tactical knives clipped to pockets.

Criminals Mindset is such, they use Tactics to pick Victims, and the Equipment is whatever "tool" they have, from a found screwdriver, beer bottle, scrap pc of wood, length of Rebar or Conduit.

Criminals "shank" each other in Prison and "shank" the Correction Officers that are Armed with Short Barreled, 12 gauge shotguns.

Think about that.

Criminal found or "obtained" a pc of metal and fashioned a "tool" and maybe "sharpened" it with cardboard. No fancy New Steel, No fancy Jig sharpeners and No concern about Primary, Secondary Bevels, blade geometry, heat treat, pocket clips and if the tip is up or down , or what style of lanyard.

Mindset being "fashion a tool". Tactic Being how to employ that tool to accomplish a means.

Correction Officer has a Issued 12 gauge Shotgun. Training, trigger time, required training and quals and - Security of all sorts to keep that Criminal away from others, and from Law Abiding Correction Staff, some being Armed and some being Medical, Clergy, Staff and the like.

Correction Office had Better NOT even let MINDSET Ever think, just because they have This 12 gauge and other Equipment, plus bars, alarms and other security measures they are Safe.

That criminal will use his Mindset, Tactic, and then the Equipment to shank that Correction Officer in the blink of an eye.

Mindset is at the top of the Triad for a Reason.

Correction officers are told, trained, and drilled into them to Never share about personal lives.
Never speak of Family or Friends or anything else "personal". The reason being, a criminal is wired unlike the law abiding and will use any and all "personal information" to distract the Mindset of a Correction Officer.

All a criminal needs is a split second of distraction and that shank will do harm to that Correction Officer, another Officer, or to another inmate.

How many of you folks stand side-by-side when speaking to each other?
There you armed with Firearms, extra mags, and knives clipped to pockets...

Correction Officer and other Professionals always face one another and position themselves to watch each others backs, and to keep tabs on surroundings.

One never knows the where or when of evil - CRSam