.22 bullseye observation

[mek42]

This is my second season of indoor .22 bullseye league - I've only had my pistol permit for a year and a half. I'm using a Ruger Mk III 22/45 with a red dot sighting device.

Over the course of this season I've been talking to people and practicing. Specifically things like locking the elbow and wrist, only moving the shoulder. Oh, and trigger pull. I can say with pride that every now and then I am completely surprised when the thing goes off.

Last week I scored a personal best (a 257, I've been averaging 230-235 this year) on round 2 of 2 after shooting well (241) on my first match. What I did was to actually be thinking of non-shooting related things other than "Is my sight on target? If so, increase trigger pressure."

Does anyone else have success with this? Thinking of other things to take your mind off of all but the absolutely necessary elements of shooting? Or am I just some whacked out nutjob?

 

[rchernandez]

Dryfire a lot. Make the process of pulling the trigger a semi-conscious process...I try to focus on my sights, keeping the reddot in the black. On a very good day I'll keep a 8-ring wobble...when my "flyers" end up right on the edge of the black...then there are other days

Anyway, the less deliberate "thinking" the better.

 

[cdrt]

I shot Bullseye and International from 1973 to 1989 and had to lay off for a variety of reasons. When I started again in 2003, the first thing I had to do was get back in the habit of doing things the same way everytime. You need to get in a rhythm of how you do things...setting up your gun box, where you keep items you always need (muffs, firm grip, etc.), feet placement, etc. Once you get the little things out of the way, it's easier to concentrate on the shooting aspect of the game.
Bullseye is very deliberate. There's nothing like the 50 yard slow fire to either make your day or ruin it.
Dry firing helps, as does getting familiar with the pistol you're using and by that, I mean putting lots of rounds downrange.
Since you've already made a decision on sights, I can't change that, but I've always been of the opinion that you should at least try and master iron sights first before you switch to the red dot.
When I left off shooting Bullseye, red dots were just coming out. My pistols are still set up with iron sights (Clark .45 and .38 Special heavy slides, HS Victor and Trophy, and a Buddy Chapman Hardball) and after some gun problems that are now fixed, I'm back shooting Expert scores. And the side benefit is, I've qualified part way for the Distinguished Pistol Medal through the CMP. No red dots in that event, so shooting iron sights is a definite help.
Hope all this helps. Good to have guys starting in the Bullseye game.

Navy Vet...you can never have too many 1911s.

 

[bdutton]

Mek:

Yes... sometimes I can 'drift off'. My subconscious goes on autopilot and does the trigger and sight alignment for me. Most times the shot is fairly good (thanks muscle memory) and a bit scary since I realize after the bang that I did not intentionally pull the trigger (surprise!). This is not always a good thing and I do not recommend that you allow your conscious mind to intentionally drift off.

Zins does not recommend locking the elbow. This can lead to injury. I cannot lock my elbow (even if I try) and I shoot high master scores with the .22 and master scores with the .45. So don't worry about the elbow too much.

The wrist can be locked? There are 8 bones in the wrist. I don't think you can actually lock up a wrist the same way you can the elbow which has only 3 bones. More likely what you are being taught is that the grip pressure needs to be very firm to control recoil.

EDIT: Forgot to mention - I want to repeat and emphasize what the others said about dry fire. This will help your subconscious mind pull the trigger while you focus on the sight alignment.

Congrats on your new high score. Now forget it and focus on the next new high score!

(PS: I know it may sound clichéd but you should be training, not practicing. Practicing bullseye shooting is shooting without a goal in mind for your shooting session. Set a particular goal ('make 1st shot of timed fire a 10' or 'all shots in black during slowfire') and do it.)

EDIT#2: And don't even get me started on follow through!

 

[Sunray]

"...Dryfire a lot...." Not with a .22 without 'snap caps'. You'll damage it.
Red dot sights are not allowed in serious bullseye shooting. They're not accurate enough anyway.
Concentrate on the shot at hand, nothing else. You may want to try some different ammo and if you haven't had a trigger job done, have it done. Mind you, you may be ready to move up to a better pistol.

 

[bdutton]

Sunray:

"...Dryfire a lot...." Not with a .22 without 'snap caps'. You'll damage it.

+1 DITTO! Snap caps are a must.

Red dot sights are not allowed in serious bullseye shooting. They're not accurate enough anyway.

huh? You are kidding right? I don't think there has been a national champion in 30 years that won without a red-dot scope. Red dots are fine. But I think it's a good idea to start out shooting iron sights so you can focus on the fundamentals. You might be confusing bullseye with international style shooting.

Concentrate on the shot at hand, nothing else. You may want to try some different ammo and if you haven't had a trigger job done, have it done. Mind you, you may be ready to move up to a better pistol.

+1 DITTO. Rugers are nice accurate pistols but will hold better pistol shooters back.

 

[cdrt]

Yep, red dots are dominating the Bullseye discipline now, but International does not allow anything but iron sights. And I agree completely that a new shooter should learn with iron sights first. When you get up in the 2500 out of 2700 category, then you can switch to a red dot. I believe some of the national Bullseye records are still held by shooters using iron sights, just as the record in the pistol Leg Match is still held by a 1911 and not the Beretta, even though it is our "service" pistol now.

Navy vet...you can never have too many 1911s.

 

[deadin]

Red dot sights are not allowed in serious bullseye shooting. They're not accurate enough anyway.

I think you're confusing red dots with lasers. Lasers aren't allowed in Bullseye.

As for using irons, that's the way I learned years ago, but now my eyes are so bad I have real problems with open sights. I've got the special lenses, the iris disks,etc. and still just can't see as well as I can wth a dot. I still shoot FP and ISU Sport Pistol, so I have to use opens, but the dot adds at least 10-15 points to my Bullseye scores.

 

[cdrt]

One of the reasons I gave up Bullseye for a while was my eyes. Couldn't seem to get a prescription that would get things back in focus. A smart eye doctor found a clear cataract (he says I won the lottery) in my dominant eye that was causing me to have double vision. After surgery, I am 20/25 and I use a set of shooting glasses with the trifocal lens in the top position. It really keeps the front sight in focus and pretty much has me not worrying about using a red dot any time soon.
Y'all hang in there....Bullseye is way too much fun to ever think of giving it up.

Navy Vet.

 

[testar77]

Welcome

Bullseye is my release from the "daily grind" mainly because that to be consistant you must have complete focus and concentration. I absolutely LOVE IT!! it is a sport of pure accuracy, it is my Yoga (specially cause I lost my girlish figure a long time ago ) Stick with it and you will be hooked, I guarantee it. We shoot an indoor rimfire 600 match. It is only my second full season, first as a one handed shooter, yesterday I shot by personal best 564, and missed the ever elusive "perfect" timed fire target by 1/8" Oh well it was still a 99 and that pertfect target will come eventually. Ditto it is great to see others starting up in one of the many variations of Bullseye. It can be frustrating at times but look at it as a personal challenge. I don't challenge myself to beat the next guy, all my challenges are with myself, I drive myself to be better everytime I go out there. You will find that your breathing is very important also, the slower your breathing, the slower your heartbeat, hence the more "stable" you are. The other guys have touched on some very important issues too, you will need to figure out the best feet placement for YOU, everyone is not the same. You need to learn your pistol inside and out, where and how to grip it, finger placement on trigger etc.... Then figure out a routine that you do EVERYTIME helps with consistency, and your overall comfort factor. A lot of things to digest and implament, but my recommendation is to pick one or two things at a time to work on otherwise there is WAY to many other thoughts going through your head other than "all I shoot is 10's" Tell yourself that all the time (say it to yourself though cause nobody likes a bragger j/k) But most of all HAVE FUN and good shooting.


Toby

 

[lil ski]

There is lots of good advice on this page and I see your shooting very well so far. I agree with bdutton don't lock your elbow. Don't mind them they just like to beat up on us Ruger users. I don't shoot high master yet but it's not my guns fault. (Clark Custom does wonders to Rugers ). The most important thing is HAVE FUN!!!!

 

[mek42]

Thanks for the replies! I just shot another personal best tonight - a 263! And this even after running out of the standard velocity ammunition I usually use and needing to re-sight in with CCI Blazers!

Hmmm... with all these exclamation points you guys are gonna think I'm a little excited or something...

 

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

No, not International Rules, but from the NRA Bullseye Rule Book:

SUNRAY: "Red dot sights are not allowed in serious bullseye shooting. They're not accurate enough anyway."

You're kidding right? I don't know anyone that shoots worse when using a red dot or scope. I'm a fair open sight shooter. But better with dot. Dots are much more accurate than a set of open or peep sights. Removing 1/3 of the sight alignment factor has to do something. If a person can shoot Expert class or better with open sights -That's a great accomplishment. More power to 'em. But it's a whole lot easier with a Red Dot sight.

3.3 Any .45 Caliber Semiautomatic Pistol or Revolver - Any .45 caliber semiautomatic pistol or revolver; barrel length, including cylinders, not more than 10 inches. trigger pull for revolvers not less than 2 1/2 pounds, .45 caliber semiautomatic pistol trigger pull not less than 3 1/2 pounds. Sights may be adjustable but not over 10 inches apart measured from the apex of the rear sight to the apex of the front sight. All standard safety features of guns must operate properly. Any sights, including telescopic, are permitted with the exception of those sights which project an image on the target. Any sighting device programmed to activate the firing mechanism is prohibited.

3.4 .22 Caliber Pistol or Revolver - Any pistol or revolver using a .22 caliber rimfire, cartridge having an over-all length of not more than 1.1 inches and with lead or alloy bullet not greater than .23 inches in diameter and weighing not more than 40 grains; barrel length, including cylinder, not more than 10 inches; sights may be adjustable but not over ten inches apart measured from the apex of the rear sight to the apex of the front sight. Trigger pull not less than 2 pounds. All standard safety features of the gun must operate properly. Any sights, including telescopic, are permitted with the exception of those sights which project an image on the target. Any sighting device programmed to activate the firing mechanism is prohibited.

SERVICE PISTOL does require open sights.
3.l (a) Service Pistol - U.S. Pistol, caliber .45 M1911 or M1911A1 or the same type and caliber of commercially manufactured pistol. The pistol must be equipped with the standard issue or similar commercially-procured stocks or other comparable design of grips which interferes with no functional or maintenance features of the pistol, is functionally identical for right or left hand use. is not more than 1 inches in thickness between right and left side extremities as installed, includes no thumb rest or finger channels, and would not prevent holstering in the standard service holster. Trigger pull must be not less than 4 pounds. The pistol must be equipped with open sights. The front sight must be non-adjustable. The pistol may be equipped with an adjustable rear sight with open U or rectangular notch, the distance between sights measuring not more than 7.25 inches from the apex of the front sight to the apex of the rear sight. The forestrap of the grip may be checkered. The mainspring housing may be either the flat or arched type. Trigger shoes may be used. Trigger stops. internal or external, are acceptable. Otherwise, external alterations or additions to the arm will not be allowed. The internal parts of the pistol may be specially fitted and include alterations which will improve the functioning and accuracy of the arm, provided such alterations in no way interfere with the proper functioning of the safety devices as manufactured. All standard safety features of the pistol must operate properly. It is the competitors responsibility to have his pistol checked prior to the firing of the match.

I witnessed TSTAR77 shoot his personal best the other day... Talk about a guy that's unhappy with a 97 on a Timed Fire Target!!!

-Steve

 

[testar77]

Bite me Jack

yeah I get a fair amount of crap about some of the targets that I am Happy/not happy with, but like I said I compete very heavily with myself. I just can't help it dangit :banghead:

 

[fredzilla]

It's ok to dry fire Mk3's

Title says it all... It is ok to dry fire a MK3 so says Ruger.