.22 LR in a .22 WRF revolver?

[commygun]

I recently inherited a Colt Police Positive Target chambered in .22WRF. I've found a few hundred rounds of WRF but it's not extremely common and certainly not as cheap as .22 LR. My question is what harm would I do to the gun (and it's performance) firing .22 LR in it? My Dad said he and his brother fired tons of .22LR through it back in the '40's and it doesn't seem to have affected the revolver. It's still very accurate and tight.

 

[BenB8290]

I don't know about .22 Long Rifle, but have you considered using .22 Magnum? That may work.

 

[gdesloge]

From Chuck Hawks:

"The .22 Winchester Rim Fire (WRF) is all but obsolete. It was designed for the Winchester Model 1890 pump action rifle and was later adapted to Remington and Stevens rifles as well as Colt Revolvers. Winchester .22 WRF loads used a flat point bullet.

Remington manufactured the cartridge, loaded it with a round nose bullet, and called it the .22 Remington Special. The two are actually the same cartridge and are completely interchangable.

I mention it here because Winchester .22 WRF ammo will fit in a .22 Magnum chamber, but not the reverse. The WRF fires a 45 grain, copper-plated, lead semi-wadcutter style bullet at a velocity of 1,320 fps and 175 ft. lbs. of energy at the muzzle of a 22" rifle barrel. The sectional density (SD) of the 45 grain WRF bullet is .128. It hits with noticeably more authority than the .22 LR. Winchester also offered a 40 grain hollow point bullet.

Because its case is slightly larger in diameter than a .22 LR case (as is the .22 Magnum), the WRF will not go into LR chambers. Like the .22 Magnum, the WRF uses standard .224" bullets (like most centerfire .22's), not .220" bullets like the Long Rifle.

It is actually quite a useful cartridge, as it hits harder than the .22 LR and is less expensive and less destructive than the .22 Magnum. Unfortunately, sales have diminished almost to the vanishing point and .22 WRF ammunition is no longer cataloged by Remington, although Winchester and CCI occasionally produce runs of .22 WRF ammo. Note that CCI warns against using their .22 WRF ammunition, which is loaded with a JHP bullet, in .22 WMR guns."

 

[CraigC]

No, it is the same diameter as the .22Mag, which is larger than the .22LR case because the bullets are seated down in the case. Unlike the heeled design of the .22LR. The cases will split and you'll probably get some hot gas and debris in your face. Accuracy will be poor.

 

[bhk]

Both Winchester and CCI still load the .22 WRF. You can find it on-line at places like Graf's, Midway, etc. I use it frequently in my .22 mag Smith and Wesson 648. It is great for rabbits and squirrels. More punch than a regular .22, yet much quieter than the magnum.

 

[LC '92]

I shoot .22 LR in my model 48 .22 Magnum S&W revolver sometimes. The cases swell and have some blow by but it works OK. Not ideal at all, but certainly safe in my experience.

 

[savage23]

Hey LC'92 nice gun!!!! I have the same gun- mine was made in 66. how often do you shoot .22lr out of it? Any other problems shooting .22lr? Is it safe-will it hurt the gun or the shooter?

 

[gdesloge]

I am really curious. Why does anyone want to fire any ammunition out of a gun other than the ammunition for which it was designed?

Thank you for the honest answers.

gd

 

[natman]

I am really curious. Why does anyone want to fire any ammunition out of a gun other than the ammunition for which it was designed?

Thank you for the honest answers.

gd

Because in this case 22 LR is a lot cheaper and much easier to find than 22 WRF.

Nevertheless 22 LR should NOT be fired in a 22 WRF. The 22 WRF is a shorter version of the 22 Mag. The chambers will be too big, 22 LR brass will be unsupported and you will get case swelling / splits.

22 WRF is available. Just special order a case of it and fire away.

 

[jmorris]

I have seen people shoot wrong ammunition in firearms more than once. 9mm out of a .40, 40 out of a 45 and once even a 264 win mag out of a 300 Weatherby. Luckily no one was hurt other than their pride for having done something stupid. I couldn’t imagine doing something like that on purpose.

 

[gdesloge]

natman and jmorris -

Those are the answers that I expected from reasonable people. Thank you.

gd

 

[VA27]

The CCI 22WRF ammo is the berries. It's more powerful than the Winchester 22Mag Dynapoint, almost as powerful as regular 22Mag. I use it sometimes in my Smith M51.

I would never suggest that anyone do this, I just thought that this was an interesting factoid: If you cut the head off of a fired 22WRF case just ahead of the rim and smooth the edges, it will slide right over a 22lr, sort of like a chamber adapter.

 

[bigfatdave]

I see the WRF in local shops frequently, I agree with natman, stock up on WRF and don't shove the wrong round into the chamber.

Look up the history on the .22LR and .22WMR families of ammunition, it is rather interesting, well documented on Wikipedia and will show you why the families are NOT compatible.

 

[LC '92]

Geeze guys, stick to the topic. The question was whether it is safe to fire a .22 LR in a Colt .22 WRF revolver. The simple answer is yes. Is it the best choice, no, I think we all agree on that. But is it safe, yes. And yes the case swells to fit the chamber. Big deal.

How in the world this compares to shooting a 9mm in a .40 or a .264 Winchester out of a .300 Weatherby is beyond me.

Commiegun, if your dad and uncles shot hundreds of LR rounds through it and it is still in fine shape, what more proof would you need?

Savage 23, the accuracy isn't so hot, but if you run out of .22 Mags, the LR's works fine. Try it and report back here on what you think.

With kindest regards,

 

[gdesloge]

Actually, the question was, "My question is what harm would I do to the gun (and it's performance) firing .22 LR in it? "


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081101173307AAVN2SC

.22 LR in a .22 WRF? Is it safe?

Is it safe to shoot .22 LR in my .22 WRF pistol? I know the answer is probably no, but I couldn't help but ask. Thanks.

no it is not safe - you could possibly get by with it a few times but then you would get a case rupture
The .22 WRF (and WMR) fire a .224 "normal" bullet - which means the base of the bullet is essentially the same diam. as the main body of the bullet
the .22 LR uses a "heeled" bullet so the outside diameter of the main part of the bullet is the same diam as the outside of the cartridge case
I think you will find the LRs will rattle around a little in your cylinder - a case rupture waiting to happen
http://www.chuckhawks.com/history_rimfir…
* 2 years ago


gd

 

[LC '92]

Jiminy Christmas, another net lawyer.

Any shooter worth his weight in saltpeter knows the difference in an internally lubricated .22 WRF and an externally lubricated .22 LR and their associated loaded case diameters. The same with the two different bore diameters.

The gentleman already said, and I'll quote it so you need not correct my paraphrase, "My Dad said he and his brother fired tons of .22LR through it back in the '40's and it doesn't seem to have affected the revolver. It's still very accurate and tight. ".

I think this pretty much answers the question. If not, please tell me which part of his question was not addressed by it. I also added that I had done this as well with no ill effects.

As both my model 48 S&W and his Colt Police Positive have cylinders with recessed case heads, maybe you could go back to Yahoo and try and figure out, even with a swollen or ruptured case, why "it is not safe".

Please excuse my discourtesy in this response. I have found their is more Bravo Sierra spread on the net than solid facts and it grates on my nerves to see honest questions like this from a real shooter expounded on by net wisdom instead of actual knowledge.

As an aside, I am 54 years old, have been shooting and reloading since I was 14, am a former FFL holder, certified NRA Jr. Marksmanship instructor, and am classified as a Master in NRA High Power Rifle competition. This is not my first rodeo.

I think I have spoke my piece on this and will leave it alone for now. Commygun, I guess your just going to have to decide whom you will believe. Thank God we all live in a country where we are free to decide for ourselves.

With kindest regards...

 

[Gordon]

I'll have to remember cutting off the .22 wrf/mag case head and sliding the tube over the .22lr case. That actually sounds like it would work in a pinch although you have a .222 bullet in a .224 it does have the cup shaped base that swells to take the rifling. Kewl idea!

 

[gdesloge]

I still just do not understand the mindset that it is acceptable practice to fire ammunition that is not designed for a particular firearm in that firearm.

Because the cartridge fits in the chamber?

Because it is less expensive?

Because someone did it for years with no (claimed) ill effects?

Because someone who happens to owns a gun claims that it is safe?

From the NRA website:

"Use only the correct ammunition for your gun.
Only BBs, pellets, cartridges or shells designed for a particular gun can be fired safely in that gun. Most guns have the ammunition type stamped on the barrel. Ammunition can be identified by information printed on the box and sometimes stamped on the cartridge. Do not shoot the gun unless you know you have the proper ammunition."

If this sounds lawyer-like, I just cannot help that. It sounds more like common sense to me.

I am not at all upset about this exchange, but I really do find it fascinating that some folks would advocate substituting incorrect ammunition without at least making a pretense about having experience designing firearms.

Pay a couple of bucks more and use the gun as it was designed.



There are three kinds of people in this world; those who watch things happen, those who make things happen, and those who wonder, "what just happened?".

Best to all,

gd

 

[Gordon]

So guys no .38s in .357s, nor .32S&W in the Colt New Police .32s nor Schofield .45s in .45 Colts nor .44 specials in .44mags, forget .32acp in .32 S&W Longs nor .22 Shorts in LR chambers. after all the NRA was G-d, at least when Charleston was alive that is!

 

[gdesloge]

You are kidding, right?

gd

 

[rswartsell]

What we are missing here is a factual analysis of the events that occur when an undersize case ruptures under the pressure of detonation sending an undersize projectile down the tube. This may prove to be extremely difficult to anticipate, resulting in the inconclusive discussion in this thread.

Clearly it is NOT 2 very different things;

1. It is not the same as an overpressure situation resulting in the rupture of the structural steel of the gun, AKA Kaboom! Because of this the short sighted may feel it is acceptable.

2. It is also NOT a management of the detonation, gas pressure and other super-human forces (by strength, speed and temperature) anticipated by the collective engineering of the weapon and cartridge. Put simply, the Genie is escaping the bottle.

Instinctively, if by no other means, most long time responsible users of combustible powder firearms avoid all such situations like the plague. For very good reason. You are giving up predictable physics to the extreme random chances of uncontrolled kinetic energies that are intentionally intense enough to render flesh and blood insignificant.

Think about that for a moment. No one here will tell you what exactly will happen each and every time because we simply do not know. What has happened the previous 1000 times is NOT a guarantee of what is about to happen.

For the advantages laid out in favor of giving up the designed, engineered expectation of managing destructive force, you will receive a wild card of potential disaster. Disaster large or small, likely or remote is avoided or mitigated to all extents possible by a prudent man. If instead you are a gambler, adventurist or desperate then God be with you. Understand though that I and many of my colleagues will NOT be standing beside you.

 

[bigfatdave]

So guys no .38s in .357s, nor .32S&W in the Colt New Police .32s nor Schofield .45s in .45 Colts nor .44 specials in .44mags, forget .32acp in .32 S&W Longs nor .22 Shorts in LR chambers.

You're missing the point here, this isn't like shoving a .38special into a .357mag chambered gun, it is like shoving a .44mag into a .45lc gun, the rounds aren't from the same parent case.

The rim is wider on a .22mag/wrf round than it is on a .22s/l/lr round.
The cases of the .22mag family are tapered, the .22lr family has straight walls.
The projectiles are different designs and diameters.

Don't get annoyed with me or the others who understand the lineage of the various rimfire loadings, get mad at the jerks who named two different base designs "twenty-two" and expected everyone to figure it out on their own.

 

[Gordon]

I been shooting .22wrf for 50 years and still do. I have a few bricks of CCI and Win of it. I shoot them in rifles and pistols because they kill quietly. I never shot .22LR in mine, unless I switched from .22mag cylinders to the .22lr cylinder in revolvers. When I was a boy I had friends that shot "reg" .22 in WRF with no ill effects other than ugly brass, for some reason no splits however. Yeah it is REALLY hard to find WRF and in the 60 and 70 was almost impossible. Who would know the .22 Rem Special was the same load? Just saying. Of coarse common sense would dictate using measurement devices/research when unsure. What about all those S&W Victory models rebored and remarked .38 Special from .38 S&W , what is the NRA take on those turkey's ?

 

[Walkalong]

Whoops...

 

[commygun]

Thanks for the replies. I understood that .22LR and .22 WRF are not dimensionally the same but also doubted the ability of the .22LR to turn the PP's cylinder into a grenade. I was more concerned about slow long-term damage to the revolver. There is virtually no daylight between the cylinder and the forcing cone but I see quite a bit of erosion under the top strap right above the forcing cone. Is this from gas/flame cutting? Is it a result of shooting LR's instead of WRF's? The revolver's in beautiful shape, and as I noted tight as a drum. I probably won't shoot .22 LR's in it but if WRF's should ever become unobtainable I might or one of my sons might. Thanks