.223 1 in 8" Help!!

[Walkalong]

Quote:

Normal groups are 0.3-0.4 at 100.

You ought to be at matches beating our eyes out if you can do that consistently without flags or anything and bulk bullets. Try shooting 5 timed, 5 shot groups all in a row in all conditions and avg. them together. Then you will know what you and your rifle can do.

Well: OlderFox took my "doubting Thomas" self to task for this post and emailed me a fine looking group that looked pretty small.

I humbly apologise to OlderFox for lumping him in with all the "wondershooters" on the net who can shoot world records all the time with bulk bullets. Seems he can do it, at least sometimes.. Shame on me and what a rude way to treat a new THR member and a northern neighbor from Canada.

My apologies OlderFox............Walkalong

Welcome to THR

 

[billp]

Hodgdon on .233 pressure

I'm about ready to put powder in .223 cases.

So I went to the Hodgdon website and saw.



I am still totally paranoid about pressure.

So I phoned Hodgdon

If you have a safety problem or concern - DO NOT EMAIL - CALL US
DIRECTLY - 913-362-9455​

Here's what happened. Ever get shuttled off to nowhere by responding wrong on the phone?

Think safety, rather than reloading, first.

Mike put my mind to ease.

Hey, we think that there is more technology availabile to us than bullets.

Digital calipers and maybe even new powders, like VARGET?

Us seniors will see.

 

[45crittergitter]

Could it be the scope system or shooter? What about parallax correction?

 

[tikkat3]

Thanks very much for that link tikkat3, i will try it, i just wish they had had the common sense to do it themselves!QUOTE]

I agree totally. Even with 55gr V-MAX the standard magazine struggles to cope with rounds loaded to the lands. At least the magazine is plastic and can easily be modified. :banghead:

 

[farmer7]

When you modified your mag Tikkat3 did you have to extend the base plate of the mag? and if so, how??

 

[billp]

initial load ss109 and 55 gr hornady v-max

After reviewing hornaday loads, here's my CURRENT assesments.

ss109 start 24.8 gr VARGET start.
ss109 max 26.8 max

55 gr v-max start 25.5 VARGET start.
55 gr v-max 27.5 max

About 2 gr in both cases.

I am thinking about this. Slowly, of course.

I CURRENTLY plan to load one shell each at about .2 gr increment to max to test for pressure.

I looked for a dead drop hammer at harbor freight today ... just in case I have to beat-open the stevens 200 bolt. No sales prices.

Onward.

 

[fastbike]

For BillP - temperature - pressure

Remember that Varget is specifically developed to minimize variations w/ temperature. The free Hodgson manual has a chart that shows <8fps variation for temps from 0F to 125F.

Not to add to your paranoia, but also remember that the 27.5 gr load is compressed. Personally, I like to stay away from compressed loads. Too many bad things from very small changes in seating depth. BTW the same chart shows 114fps variation for Win 748.

 

[billp]

compressed loads

Senior citizen will try to stay away from compressed loads as much as possible and will record hopefully with digital photos.

HEY, Let me get your take on this.

Son sent 200 ss109 bullets. I will load and test.

Will a ss109 shoot through a 3/8 steel plate?

At what rockwell hardness?

I've had .22 bullets come back and hit me.

But with an ss109 I'm a bit concerned.

For us seniors who want to become more senior.

 

[RecoilRob]

Farmer 7..

I have some friends that have used Varget with mixed results....none extraordinary. Suggested H-335 (WCC844 surplus) and they are hooked!

For one of the unexplainable reloading reasons (planetary alignment perhaps?) H-335 seems to be accurate in most rifles that don't shoot well with Varget.

It is a dense ball powder and is the standard loading for US M885 rounds....which is a pretty strong endorsement in my world.

I've loaded IMI 62grn SS109's over 26grns of 844 that will stay within an inch out of a Bushmaster (one in 9) Varminter. For a military round that is pretty fine. Have Sierra 55's that will go inside 1/4" with same load.

Cannot say I understand why some powders will be more accurate than another, but my experience with H-335 in .223 has been outstanding. Good shooting!

 

[GaryArkansas]

BLC(2) with 50 grain Hornady SP

I use 26.0 grains of BLC(2), which is fairly light load. I use a flat base Hornady 50 grain SP. My OAL is 2.21, but I'm thinking about not seating so deep with my next set of check loads. CCI 400 primers, Sellier & Bellot cases.

I shoot with a 1:9 twist Savage, and the groups are pretty consistent. We had a bunch of wind today, but one of my groups had three in the same hole. (Normally, I'm not that accurate. Not sure of the distance, but its under 100 yards).

The nice thing about BLC(2) is that its a spherical powder with very tiny particles. It meters exceptionally well, with very little bridging.

 

[Walkalong]

Not to add to your paranoia, but also remember that the 27.5 gr load is compressed. Personally, I like to stay away from compressed loads. Too many bad things from very small changes in seating depth.

A valid point, but try this. Get a long drop tube for your powder measure witha small diameter hole in it. Homemade is fine. When you drop powder with it into your case it will compact your charge throughout the case and end up lower in the neck than regular charging. Then you are not compressing powder when seating the bullet and alls well. A trick we use in Benchrest. Works very well. The longer the tube (within reason) the more it compacts the powder in the case.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/rcbs_quick_change_funnel.htm

The longest shown here is short really. 4 times that long is used often.

http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reloadbasics/scales.cfm

Here is a pic and an explanation.

Ditto on H335, real good stuff.

 

[farmer7]

Thanks for the info Recoil and Gary, I did actually have H335 and BLC-(2), i think i may still have some. I didn't really get on very well with either. Maybe i should go back and try again as i now have the 69gr SMK's. The reason i was wanting to use varget was maximum velocity.

Walkalong you were talking about compression, i loaded some up on saturday using a drop tube, but because of my mag length i have to seat them fairly deep. When i was seating them i could feel and hear the Varget crushing. Am i asking for trouble??????

 

[billp]

Slam fire ouch

I'm JUST ABOUT ready to powder my .223 55 v-max and ss109 cartridges.

I am proceeding with both at .2 grain increment staying .2 grain less than maximum load.

I will load 10 each, go the the albuquerque rifle range, and will test for pressure.

I bore sighted, after returning medium height Millett rings to Sportsman's Warehouse to get low Millet rings from Shooter's Den, the stevens 200 using and ironing board and an about 1 inch florescent target attached to the side of my accross-the-street neighbor's pickup.

I will position targets at 25 yards to see how my bore sighting is.

Main objective is to test for pressure.

Safety, I see from THR, is main concern.

As a senior citizen who lived in Pullman, Wa from 1966 to 1980, let me related a Jack O'Conner safety story.

Legendary rifle write Jack O'Conner lived in Lewiston, ID about 30 miles south and about 1,900 feet less altituted from Pullman.

O'Conner apparently suffered a slamfire which pasted his thumb against his arm!

Ouch!







You see the rock chucker press I am using to load .223 shells.

Senior citizen visited the home/shop of Al Biesen rifle maker in Spokane. And went pheasant/chukar hunting with Biesen with Frank Prinique who had a rifle built by Biesen.

 

[billp]

farmer7

I will stop my .223 55 v-max and ss109 loads if I detect "crushing."

My one overload experience was too horrible to even think about possibly repeating again.

 

[Walkalong]

Walkalong you were talking about compression, i loaded some up on saturday using a drop tube, but because of my mag length i have to seat them fairly deep. When i was seating them i could feel and hear the Varget crushing. Am i asking for trouble??????

I routinely do that with N133 and various 68 Gr. bullets, although I am not pushing the powder back more than about 1/10 of an inch in the neck and N133 is finer than Varget. I don't think it will be a problem unless it is severe. How long of a drop tube did you use and how big was the hole in it. The slower the powder goes in the more compressed it will end up. I take it your bullet base is down past the neck. That is part of the problem with heavy for the caliber bullets where you have to make them fit in the mag.

Have you considered TAC? It is a ball powder and shoots quite well. I suspect it would do quite well with heavy bullets in the .223 although I have not tried it. Only in the 6 PPC.

 

[joneb]

Lighter bullets for faster twist barrels can be slowed down for improved accuracy, the reason being the faster the bullet spins imperfections are amplified. Farmer 7 your Tika with a 1:8 twist and barrel length? I'll guess 24",is made to shoot 62gr and up well. Good luck I hope patients solves your problems and your rifle is well

 

[tikkat3]

Farmer, sorry - been offline a while! The base plate of the magazine's only modification is that the 4 studs that come off the main housing and lock into the baseplate (to hold the plate onto the housing) need to be "tickled" with a drill to take their tips off so that the plate can be removed and access gained for the cutting of the rear stop in the housing. Once fully modified, I replaced the base plate, securing it with a few dabs of superglue to hold it firm. Do not do this until you know the modification is fully and successfully done.

A word of warning: it is advisable to have a spare factory magazine available. The modified magazine is good for the longer, heavier rounds, but can cause feeding problems for the more standard 55gr lengths. I would strongly advise keeping a standard magazine for the 55gr and smaller rounds, and the modified one for 75/80gr A-MAX. As you will know, the T3 chamber is deeply placed and cannot be easily hand fed (hence the need for modification!) It is a chambering problem that the smaller length rounds have in the modifed magazine.

Hope this helps.