ChefJeff1
Member
I'm looking to get dies for reloading for my ar15. Most of my gear is Lee and it works fine for me. Should I get the Lee set or do I need the RCBS small base ar set?
Thanks, Jeff
Thanks, Jeff
223/5.56 dies
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W.E.G.
Member
Should I use a small base die for the AR15?
Hmmmm... https://www.google.com/webhp?source...3&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=small base die ar15
You don't HAVE to.
Many of us, myself included, choose to do so.
Hmmmm... https://www.google.com/webhp?source...3&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=small base die ar15
You don't HAVE to.
Many of us, myself included, choose to do so.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
Currently I am loading for four AR 15 types and one bolt gun and have yet to need a SB die but should the need arise I have it covered. I also have an old RCBS Competition FL Die Set #37201 which I like because in addition to the micrometer seating die it makes for easy work seating flat base bullets. I can't really tell you what to get because I don't know what your needs will be. Aside from the argument that SB dies will overwork the brass you really have nothing to lose getting SB dies so that is what I would suggest.
Ron
Ron
If you do not have any 223 Remington dies, I recommend getting a small base sizer die. You may not need one but it is cheap insurance against chambering problems.
Like W.E.G., I choose to use a small base die for my 223 Remington AR-15s.
But, I have a combination of rifles and dies that I end up with chambering problems in a couple of rifles. So that i do not have to segregate ammunition by rifle, sizing with a small base dies eliminates that issue.
Like W.E.G., I choose to use a small base die for my 223 Remington AR-15s.
But, I have a combination of rifles and dies that I end up with chambering problems in a couple of rifles. So that i do not have to segregate ammunition by rifle, sizing with a small base dies eliminates that issue.
medalguy
Member
I use standard dies. I'm a little afraid of overworking the brass resulting in shorter case life. I load for six different rifles and I've never felt a need to use SB dies. But YMMV so get a standard set and if you have chambering problems them you can get SB dies but I'd be willing to bet standard dies will work fine. If you're interested I have an extra set of new unused .223 RCBS standard base dies including the shell holder that I'll sell for $30 plus $6 postage. If you try them and they don't work for you, send them back and I'll refund your cost. Just let me know.
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243winxb
Member
Range brass? Get a RCBS small base die set, taper crimp.
matrem
Member
You'll do just fine with a regular fl size die.
If you would happen to get in the range pick-up habit, just bounce that die off of your shell holder, if it still doesn't chamber(or fit into case gauge)- just toss it.
Doubt you lose one in a hundred.
If you would happen to get in the range pick-up habit, just bounce that die off of your shell holder, if it still doesn't chamber(or fit into case gauge)- just toss it.
Doubt you lose one in a hundred.
I was concerned about shorter case life when using small base dies as well.
I have used small base dies for AR-15 ammunition for 10 years and I find I trash cases for other reasons than something to do with the extra sizing of the base of the case.
I do not trim the small base sized cases any more frequently than before I started using the small base size die.
I usually have to scrap a case used in my AR-15s due to loose primer pockets.
I am not saying folks should change to small base dies unless they have a real reason to do so, but not using small base dies because of overworking the case is not a reason to not use small base dies.
My 223 Remington bolt rifle is another story. Cases seem to last forever even with small base sizing. Sometimes, I'll shoot some new cases two or three times in the AR-15s and then save them for the bolt rifle. Unfortunately, I shoot the AR-15s more and generate more cases than I can ever shoot in the bolt rifle.
FROGO207
Member
I have a couple bolt 223, three various H&R single shots, and three Mini 14's. I use regular Lee dies and even after having purchased 2K of MG fired 5.56 brass some years ago I have never needed SB dies yet. Others have indeed needed them and for the price difference it might be wise to get a set of them. FWIW I have two full sets of Lee 223 dies here "just in case".
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Still using the old RCBS standard dies I bought in 1970 with never a problem.
If I was doing a do-over today?
I'd probably get the RCBS AR die set.
rc
If I was doing a do-over today?
I'd probably get the RCBS AR die set.
rc
The Small base die is a solution to a non-existent problem.
In a properly chambered rifle there is no need to size the case "below" SAAMI Specs.
Especially in an AR.
From Sierra.
Despite the oft-repeated advice that autoloaders, pumpguns and lever-actions require small base dies, the Service Rifles may be the exception that proves the rule. While it’s true that all of these action types lack the powerful camming forces of a bolt-action, the more generous chamber dimensions common to most Service Rifles are normally compatible with standard dies. Please understand that this is a general statement, and that there are exceptions to this. The point is, you don’t need to automatically go to a small base die set. Most of the standard reloading dies produced by reputable firms, such as RCBS, will resize fired brass properly to work in these rifles.
http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reloadbasics/gasgunreload.cfm
I load for several Semi-Auto rifles, AR's, Mini's, BAR's, 742's and I have yet to find a need for a SB die.
In a properly chambered rifle there is no need to size the case "below" SAAMI Specs.
Especially in an AR.
From Sierra.
Despite the oft-repeated advice that autoloaders, pumpguns and lever-actions require small base dies, the Service Rifles may be the exception that proves the rule. While it’s true that all of these action types lack the powerful camming forces of a bolt-action, the more generous chamber dimensions common to most Service Rifles are normally compatible with standard dies. Please understand that this is a general statement, and that there are exceptions to this. The point is, you don’t need to automatically go to a small base die set. Most of the standard reloading dies produced by reputable firms, such as RCBS, will resize fired brass properly to work in these rifles.
http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reloadbasics/gasgunreload.cfm
I load for several Semi-Auto rifles, AR's, Mini's, BAR's, 742's and I have yet to find a need for a SB die.
Dudedog
Contributing Member
I am happy with my Lee dies in .223. Loading for a Mini 14 and AR no issues so far. (other than the Mini 14 throws cases a mile 
)
I also purchased the powder thru die for rifle and double disk kit. Now that they have the Auto drum I prefer it for .223.
)I also purchased the powder thru die for rifle and double disk kit. Now that they have the Auto drum I prefer it for .223.
I load for both my and my father's Mini-14 (both 1970's vintage 182 series). On once-fired brass, I use a set of standard dimension RCBS dies. For the small fraction of brass that I recover after firing, I use a neck sizing die since the brass is now fire-formed to the chamber and the chambers in the two rifles are effectively identical so the ammunition does interchange and still feed reliably.
If you're loading for more than one rifle, then I would follow the conventional wisdom and get the small base dies to make sure everything you have will digest your reloads.
If you're loading for more than one rifle, then I would follow the conventional wisdom and get the small base dies to make sure everything you have will digest your reloads.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I have a standard set of RCBS .223. dies and a set of Lee dies. I have never had a problem with my 223/5.56mm brass. Do you need them, no. Could it hurt to have them, no. Should you buy them, why not? Since you don't now own a set of .223 dies why not buy the small base RCBS dies? (they are on sale at Midway USA)
Standard full length sizing dies should work fine. You'll have longer case life with them, too.
Small base dies typically size fired cases a bit more than standard dies, but not so much that the sized case dimensions are less than SAAMI specs.
Small base dies typically size fired cases a bit more than standard dies, but not so much that the sized case dimensions are less than SAAMI specs.
243winxb
Member
Sizing Bottle Neck cartridges- FL dies.
On sizing, the head to datum measurement of the brass is most important. To short and case separation is possible. To long and the round will not chamber. Partial full length sizing or control of the shoulder bump is what you want to do. There are tools to set/find the correct head to datum measurement. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=12897/GunTechdetail/Gauging_Success___Minimum_Headspace_and_Maximum_COL Or buy a Wilson case gage and place a fired case in it. Size the fired brass so it sits a tiny bit lower in the case gage. A small base die will work and so may a standard die on range brass. I have used 2 sets of standard RCBS dies to load many guns, from M16 to Contender. No problems when starting with my used brass.
On sizing, the head to datum measurement of the brass is most important. To short and case separation is possible. To long and the round will not chamber. Partial full length sizing or control of the shoulder bump is what you want to do. There are tools to set/find the correct head to datum measurement. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=12897/GunTechdetail/Gauging_Success___Minimum_Headspace_and_Maximum_COL Or buy a Wilson case gage and place a fired case in it. Size the fired brass so it sits a tiny bit lower in the case gage. A small base die will work and so may a standard die on range brass. I have used 2 sets of standard RCBS dies to load many guns, from M16 to Contender. No problems when starting with my used brass.
lightman
Member
I'm another vote to try the standard full length die. You can always buy the small base die separately later. cfullgraf said what I was thinking. When shooting an auto loader, other things happen to your brass that shorten the life. You also loose some, so you really have nothing to loose with a sb die. I just don't think you will need it.
RPegram
Member
I like my Lee full length size die. I use Ballistol for lube and it has worked great for thousands of pieces of brass. I only use once fired Lake City and every one I've resized have functioned perfectly.
ColoradoShooter77
Member
I have the standard Lee 3-Die 223 set, loading for an S&W M&P Sport and I've had no issues through 1700 rounds, they chamber fine.
The Lee dies are the best value, test your gun with them. If you have problems, then get a small base sizer die.
The Lee dies are the best value, test your gun with them. If you have problems, then get a small base sizer die.
Small Base or standard full length: It's like a question about which religion you prefer.
Everyone has a different idea, and everyone thinks theirs is the only true answer.
In truth, just pick one and adjust to fit your chamber. They are all right.
You decide which side of the line you're on, then buy your equipment and be happy.
Everyone has a different idea, and everyone thinks theirs is the only true answer.
In truth, just pick one and adjust to fit your chamber. They are all right.
You decide which side of the line you're on, then buy your equipment and be happy.
highlander 5
Member
Standard dies are all you really need. I've been loading a variety of bolt and semi auto rifles for the better part of 45 years and have yet to need a small base die set.
I always check Lee Dies first as they seem to be the most reasonable. When I started loading for my AR I got the Lee 3 dies set in .223. After a number of sessions, trial and error, and lots of questions on forums the Lee full length sizing die would not work for me and my AR. The casing came out in spec, meaning it checked out with a case gage, but the casing would not eject from my AR. Going to a small base RCBS die solved my problem. IT was that simple.
I'd suggest if you are loading for an AR be prepared to get a small base sizing die. Try it first, you may not need it, but be prepared to do so. Or, if you like just start there. Know that the small base die will work your brass slightly more. That may or may not be a concern for you.
-Jeff
I'd suggest if you are loading for an AR be prepared to get a small base sizing die. Try it first, you may not need it, but be prepared to do so. Or, if you like just start there. Know that the small base die will work your brass slightly more. That may or may not be a concern for you.
-Jeff
OP
OP
ChefJeff1
Member
Thanks for all of the great info. I went with the RCBS small base set mostly cause the lee set was back ordered where I like to order from. I'm not too concerned with working the brass more.
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