.223 50gr. V-Max

[4895]

I was loading up some 50 grain V-Max bullets in .223 this evening and I came across a problem. As I was seating the bullet to 2.200" per Hornady 8th edition book spec, my Lee die bottoms out and won't seat the bullet beyond 2.250" without conflict. If I crank the seating stem down a bit more, I can get the OAL to 2.245" but the stem scores the bullet pretty bad.

Should I just forget the book OAL and use the 2.250", which is .010" less than max, and just work up a ladder load with it?

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Should I try a different seating die instead of the Lee?

Per the Lee instructions, I am running the seating die down to the shellholder plus 1/4 turn. I don't see how turning the die down any further would change the internal dimension of the seating stem as it is limited by contact with the shellholder.

Sorry for my ignorance. I haven't messed with .223 in a few years and to be honest lost interest since I acquired a .22-250.

 

[steve4102]

Per the Lee instructions, I am running the seating die down to the shellholder plus 1/4 turn.

This is not what Lee says in their instructions. Doing this will set the crimp feature in the seating die to deep and crush the case.

This is from Lee's instruction sheet.

Screw the bullet seating die in until you feel it
touch the case mouth. If no crimp is desired,
back the die out 1/2 turn.

This means you place a sized case in the shell holder, raise the ram, screw the die into the press until you feel the die make contact with the case mouth, back the die out 1/2 turn from there.

 

[KansasSasquatch]

This is not what Lee says in their instructions. Doing this will set the crimp feature in the seating die to deep and crush the case.

This is from Lee's instruction sheet.

Screw the bullet seating die in until you feel it
touch the case mouth. If no crimp is desired,
back the die out 1/2 turn.

This means you place a sized case in the shell holder, raise the ram, screw the die into the press until you feel the die make contact with the case mouth, back the die out 1/2 turn from there.

Actually it depends on which set of Lee dies you have. Some of their seating dies do not crimp, like my 7.62x54R set. With those you over cam just like 4895 mentioned. I can't speak to what his .223 dies say. But if that particular seating die has a crimping feature, overcamming it could surely cause seating problems because it would be starting to crimp just as the bullet is entering the casing. But I would think it would be overly crimped and probably buckled, and obvious.

 

[Walkalong]

The Lee "dead length" seater with the collet sizer does not crimp, and the directions may read that way, but for the seaters that do crimp you need to follow the directions steve4102 posted, or the crimp feature will be messing things up.

Adjust the seating depth with the seater stem after adjust the die body correctly.

Crimping may indeed be what is happening here. That would put undue pressure on the seating stem causing the stem to score the bullet badly.

 

[steve4102]

Yup, you guys are right, the Lee Dead Length is different then their standard seating die that crimps. My bad.

 

[4895]

I do have the Lee dead length seating die. It does not crimp the case. I wouldn't think I would be running out of adjustment, but it certainly does. Does the "standard" seating die allow for more adjustment? What am I missing?

 

[KansasSasquatch]

Without having a custom seating stem the only other options I see are either getting a new die or filing/machining off some metal from the bottom of the die.

But what I would try first is polishing the seating stem. If it has a rough edge where it contacts the bullet it could be seating the bullet and pulling it back out as you lower the ram. And I suggest this because of the ring that you say it's leaving on the bullet. The only time any of my dies do that is if I have the crimp set too heavy and its crimping before the bullet is fully seated. Lee makes decent dies that tend to get the job done but their machining work isn't always the prettiest. At least pull the stem out and see if it rough looking.

 

[Walkalong]

I assume you are screwing down the inner piece and not the die to seat deeper.

If so, measure the length of the insert in the seater die. I can make you a longer one. Nice and polished to boot.

 

[243winxb]

Knowledgebase http://leeprecision.net/support/index.php?/Knowledgebase/List

V-MAX Bullets Need Custom Bullet Seating Plug
Posted by Andy @ Lee Precision on 10 January 2012 11:57 AM
The bullet seating plug in the bullet seating and crimp die is generic and designed to seat a wide variety of bullet types. It is a very low drag bullet and has very steep sides. These steep sides allow a large portion of the bullet to slide into the bullet seating plug before the plug makes contact with the bullet ogive. This causes the bullet seating plug adjustment to bottom out before the bullet can be seated to achieve the cartridge overall length you are loading to.

A remedy for this is to order a custom bullet seating plug for $8.00 + shipping. Order the plug online at: http://leeprecision.com/custom-bullet-seating-plug.html

Send the sample bullet you want the plug made for, along with a copy of your invoice, and we will make the plug for you.

Lee Precision

4275 Highway U

Hartford, WI 53027

 

[4895]

I did try pices of paper towel last night but that didn't work. Maybe I can find something in the garage that will help. I think the taper on the bullet is incompatible with the seating plug. I will contact Lee or try a RCBS or other die manufacturer. Anyone load the 50 grain VMax successfully, and with what factory die set?

 

[KansasSasquatch]

I did try pices of paper towel last night but that didn't work. Maybe I can find something in the garage that will help. I think the taper on the bullet is incompatible with the seating plug. I will contact Lee or try a RCBS or other die manufacturer. Anyone load the 50 grain VMax successfully, and with what factory die set?

Hornady and RCBS seating dies work fine for me with 50gr Z-Max and V-Max. I actually size with RCBS and seat with Hornady (I like the sliding guide in their seating dies) but the RCBS works fine too. The $8 seating stem from Lee sounds like it would be your cheapest alternative, best alternative is disputable.

 

[Walkalong]

RCBS and Redding. Either will seat them just fine. You could always just spring for the $8 and get a custom plug from Lee 243winxb linked to..

 

[4895]

Lee said the wait time is 4-6 weeks. I'm not in a big hurry, but I have just finished prepping 300 pieces of brass. They also want an 'invoice', which I don't have, and $8 + s&h. The make no mention of how much s&h is but I would need to email or call them. Either way, I don't really want to wait that long to start working up loads and shooting over the chrony. It will be getting hot soon 110F + and I would like to do this tomorrow. I will buy a rcbs set and hope my luck improves. Thanks to all for the help and suggestions.

 

[ngnrd]

I had the same issue with my Lee dies when seating the very pointy Swift Scirocco's for my 223.

My solution was as follows:

1. Unscrew the adjusting screw all the way out.
2. Remove the seating plug.
3. Measure your seating plug.
4. From the measurement above, subtract the additional depth needed to seat your bullet where you want it (in your case 0.05"). This is the target length for your seating plug.
5. Chuck the top of the seating plug in a drill press (with the seating cone down).
6. Use the drill press to spin the seating plug at a medium-low speed.
7. Remove material from the bottom of the seating cone by holding a flat file to the bottom of the rotating seating plug.

Work slow, removing only the amount of material necessary to get the right seating depth. You may also have to deburr the inside of the seating cone.

When you get it the length you need, reassemble your die and check if your new seating depth is adequate.

 

[arizona98tj]

I have some .223 Remington loaded with Hornady 40 gr V-Max sitting on the shelf. They are set to 2.235" using a RCBS seating die. (measured with a dial caliper, case head to bullet tip) I have about a 1/2" of seating stem remaining.

 

[4895]

Thanks everybody for the help. I purchased a RCBS FL die set Sunday and loaded up 76 rounds tonight to a seating OAL of 2.200", stem to stern. Everything worked out beautifully and keep scratching my head as to why I bought the LEE dies in the first place. I guess the neck sizer die that is in the set will come in handy for that bolt gun I plan to purchase but can never find. The LEE FL sizing die works flawlessly as does the FCD. I would like to find a .223 single shot or bolt action rifle with a fluted stainless 18" barrel, featherweight thumbhole stock, and a target trigger that weighs in at less than 4 lbs. Anyone make such an animal? I think that would be an awesome desert scrub brush coyote combination. Anyways, thanks again for the info. I will take a file to the two bullets I partially destroyed. Maybe I can salvage two shots. Take care.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Are you sure you read the book correctly because my Hornady book lists an OAL of 2.245" for the V-max bullet and 2.200" for the other 50gr bullets.

If you are seating to 2.250" I really don't think "five one-thousands" of an inch will effect your ammo in the least. Even if the listed OAL was 2.200" that number isn't set in stone. If the ammo fires well in your rifle there's no need to stress over it...

 

[4895]

I was thinking the same thing ArchAngelCD. I thought as long as it fits in the magazine I would be fine as long as I work up a load and stay under SAAMI max length of 2.260". I have concern as the 8th edition says 2.200" for the 50 gr. V-Max and I don't know why. What really bothered my was the LEE dead length seating die that wouldn't allow me to seat the bullet any deeper in the case than 2.250" without damaging the bullet. I can't remember the last time I loaded with these dies but I think I used 200 or 300 Hornady FMJ's for plinking at the range. I believe those loaded properly without incident. I started buying LEE dies back in '06 when I started loading and have since grown accustomed to the quality in RCBS dies. I loaded up a batch with 26.0 grains of IMR 4895 and will give them a shot. Hornady shows about 3200 fps or so but I will chrony them to see where I am at. I don't think I can go wrong with this bullet/powder for coyote/jack rabbit/bobcat/practice.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Nothing wrong with 4895 in the .223 but my goto powders for bolt action rifles, Varget and for semi-autos, H335/WC844. I would like to try CFE223 but it's impossible to find right now. Same with Alliant's AR-Comp, impossible to find right now. I have over 8lbs of H335 and at least 4lbs of Varget so I'm quite well set with powders for the 223/5.56mm.

 

[ole farmerbuck]

I load a lot of v-max bullets. I use BL-C2 in the bolt guns with 40gr v-max and IMR 8208 in the AR's with 55gr v-max. Yes, i had to get longer seating stems from Lee. I might have a spare I can send you if needed.

 

[gab909]

If they fit in the mag, then I don't see it as a problem. As a matter of fact, most if not all of my rounds shoot a little better when they are seated a little longer than minimum OAL