223 Ammo for Self Defense

[JShirley]

Why .223? There's much better alternatives out there, and not very expensive either.

No. There are not. Other options usually overpenetrate except with very expensive premium rounds, are less effective, or have prohibitive blast and recoil. Frequently other defensive options have more than one of these liabilities.

The only really good reason to use a shotgun for SD- loaded with good ammunition like a traditional Foster slug or #1 buckshot- would be if the resident already owns a shotgun, but not a carbine, or shoots a lot of shotgun sports, and so already shoots the shotgun at a very high level. Almost all handgun rounds are less effective than .223 at quick incapacitation unless your home defense is against large dangerous game.

John

 

[derek45]

77gr



varmit bullets are best left to coyotes, they don't penetrate eough

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

I like soft points in 223 and Wasn't their a thread a few months ago a guy survived a point blank shot of birdshot his iPhone stopped it so no I'd not use birdshot

friend did an operation on a guy who had been shot with bird shot at VERY close range.

The wad did not have a chance to open up and was inside him. They removed the wad and had to go in there hunting for pellets.

Penetration was reportedly not impressive.

 

[FL-NC]

birdshot is for the birds

I find small pellets in squirrels. I wouldn't use them for anti-personnel unless I literally had no other choice.

 

[Balrog]

What do y'all think of lighter weight 223 Self defense rounds designed for better penetration like Winchester PDX 60g split core HP?

 

[strambo]

I wouldn't call 60g lighter weight since the M16 was designed for a 55g bullet. That load did well in the gel test I saw of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Msci2ciZ4yo

 

[slickone]

Take a look at this video Rifle ammo for Self Defense
https://youtu.be/TbOxtcjKT7A

 

[Driftertank]

Good read, but long. 5.56 recommendations are down the page a ways. My personal pick is Hornady TAP 75 BTHP, and i have a similar handload with 75gr Hornady's at 2725 fps from my 16" carbine.

https://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/

(Mods, apologize if there's any rule against cross-linking forums. Remove if necessary)

 

[Zerodefect]

Stick with the OTM's and solid copper rounds.

Something lighter might suit your needs:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/6...ock-x-bullet-hollow-point-lead-free-box-of-20

Varmit loads didn't seem very effective in my testing. Just don't miss. There is also the PS90, purpose built for this. But the trade off is, it's a bit of a gamble power wise. Any varmit, or weak indoor load is going to be that way.

 

[Tirod]

If hollow points are better at dropping the enemy, why does the Army use ammo with a steel penetrator for the most part?

Because the enemy is hiding behind concealment, and we can conclusively prove it wasn't cover by hitting them.

It's a "nice" idea to use low penetration ammo - they aren't - and for the most part, it takes penetration to make a hit on the central nervous system or vascular system to rapidly induce a lack of further participation.You need a round that can defeat their choice of cover and still hit them.

That includes interior walls, furniture, refrigerators, etc. Adopting a less lethal bullet isn't the best choice when you are attempting to stop the other person from shooting back at you. You want a first round hit and you need penetration to get to the nervous or vascular system. You want to promote the factors of a one hit stop, not make it worse.

If there is a concern about collateral casualties, then a focus on preventing the entire episode would be a better answer. The opponent won't be buying ammo for it's low penetration ability, which means at best you can only control 50% of the rounds being fired in a gunfight, and his are likely going past you toward whoever might be sheltering behind you.

You need to exploit a serious one stop shot. Even better, they shouldn't have even gotten close.

 

[GAF]

What will any 223/556 round do at typical self defense distances?

Looks like all of these test are at 25 yards.

 

[dpadams6]

i know i'm just a newby here, but i can tell you for sure the following rounds do just fine at putting folks down: 55 grain m193 gi ball (or a clone thereof), 77 grain mk262 (black hills), and my fav- 75 grain hornady bthpm. If it was me, in the interest of $, i would go with the 55 grain ball from one of the american companies. The 75 and 77 are great, but they are designed to be precision type rounds, so precision cost. Pretty sure you won't need to be pushing for head shots at 400 meters or beyond. Look at a ipsc target- that 5 zone in the torso? 2 or more there, instant rag doll in my experience. I think i have federal in my mag.

^this ^

 

[slickone]

Sale at Palmetto Armory 62 grain FBI load .223
http://palmettostatearmory.com/fede...munition-20rds-on-10rd-clips-xm556fbit3m.html

 

[Warp]

If hollow points are better at dropping the enemy, why does the Army use ammo with a steel penetrator for the most part?

Because they wanted a round that would penetate a soviet era steel (or whatever) helmet at a certain range.

Why do you ask? Do you legitimately not believe hollow points or soft points are better at stopping people than M855?

You should go do some research. Look into the M855, why it was adopted, why it was used, what veterans say about its performance, and why other rounds are being adopted to replace it.

You might be surprised how much you can learn.

 

[HankB]

If hollow points are better at dropping the enemy, why does the Army use ammo with a steel penetrator for the most part?

Hague accords? IIRC, we didn't ratify them, but we "observe" them for the most part.

The use of other ammo (such as that loaded with SMK bullets) has in recent years been approved since they're not specifically designed for increased terminal effect, but for accuracy; the increased terminal effect is just a lucky by product. (Also, we're generally not fighting uniformed forces of a nation state that itself signed the Hague accords.)

Steel penetrator ammo (and, for that matter, 55 grain FMJBT) has better terminal effect than you'd expect from a .22 because of post-impact instability; even though "designed" to penetrate, the bullets would tumble and fragment in the target. (The Swedes had conniptions about this when we started using M16s during the Vietnam war.)

This effect seems to have been reduced with the SS109 combined with faster twist rifling and the velocity loss of carbine-length barrels, leading to quite a few stories from the Middle East of multiple hits being required to take down a single bad guy.

 

[Zerodefect]

Uh, I don't think there is any steel in mk318. Just the army has m855a1?

It's a hollow tip, with a heavy rear. The tip breaks the barrier and the lead pours though and shatters. I think the mk318 mod 0 uses a copper rear instead of lead for even better barrier performance.

Silver plated so it's not confused wit mk262: