AR15 Home Defense Ammo

[conrad427]

winchester markets a .223 pdx round that might be usefull. i guess it is new and performs pretty well.

 

[Maple_City_Woodsman]

People on the internet like to forget why 12" was set as a minimum. I'll give you a hint: it is NOT because 12" of penetration is required to reach vital organs, or to stop a threat.

In FACT, vital organs are no more than 5" deep in most individuals from the frontal plane. The 12" standard was reached to ensure penetration under worst case scenarios - I.E. a shot from an oblique angle, which must also pass through a limb before entering the body cavity.

"Varmint" bullets will do just fine under most circumstances when used on an unarmored target.

OP needs to weight the risks and benefits of various ammunition types to find the one that works for him. Any of them will work most of the time, but the types that will work 100% of the time come with other inherent risks for his situation.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

In FACT, vital organs are no more than 5" deep in most individuals from the frontal plane. The 12" standard was reached to ensure penetration under worst case scenarios - I.E. a shot from an oblique angle, which must also pass through a limb before entering the body cavity.

One thing to consider though, is that the 5" you outline is only true if your threat has their hands down at their sides and you have a perfect, unobstructed chest shot (like the old B-21 silhouette). However, if the target is say, pointing a handgun back at you with both hands, the arms are now squarely in the vital zone. Where seconds earlier, 6" of penetration from a 40gr VMAX was plenty of penetration, now 6" will not get it done. The VMAX may fragment in the arms and the small fragments are not going to penetrate far if at all after dealing with bone and elasticity of skin on the opposite side of the arm.

That may not be a big deal since most of us would call it quits after taking a 40gr VMAX in the arm. Hell, just the sight of some middle-aged guy in his underwear would send me running long before I saw a gun However, most of us wouldn't be running around doing home invasions and robberies either, so that assumption may not play out according to what most of us would do.

 

[conrad427]

i guess the thing to do is to keep shooting him with what ever ammo you happen to have loaded in your ar. One round to the chest/arm/leg/head/finger with the "best" round might not do it. Keep shooting untill you have destroyed the target.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Some of those ballistic tip varmint rounds barely fit in my magazines could be an invitation to a jam. Another good reason to TRY THEM OUT before just loading them up.

Most of those are designed to be shot in a bolt gun not a semi-auto.

 

[mrbill18]

Well, I guess the frustrating aspect of bullet design for a CQB type situation is that there are very contrasting requirements. The penetration that is vital to assure incapacitation is also what could put bystanders at risk. Right or wrong, I would rather be 'undergunned' and have a round fail to adequately penetrate a bad guy than risk hitting someone walking down the street.

I know that there is a statistic that says that the vast majority of rounds fired by police miss their target. I don't know how I would perform in a home invasion, but I'm sure there is a decent chance of missing the target. This is why I am leaning towards varmint type rounds.

I've kept a G19 in my nighstand for quite awhile. I always subscribed to the thinking that a handgun round would be less likely to overpenetrate than any rifle round, but as I started to dig around with Google I found evidence to the contrary.

One thing that has bothered me looking at all these gel tests posted in this thread....why does the 40g round penetrate farther through clothing/drywall than in bare gel alone? Here: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=146306

 

[briansmithwins]

If you shoot a man in the arms with a light jacketed bullet from a rifle, the guy is pretty much going to be missing that limb.

Rifles do damage out of proportion with handguns. While a pistol caliber bullet may make a hole rifles with good ammo remove flesh.

BSW

 

[benEzra]

One thing that has bothered me looking at all these gel tests posted in this thread....why does the 40g round penetrate farther through clothing/drywall than in bare gel alone? Here: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=146306

A lot of bullets do that; fibers in the cavity tend to delay expansion/fragmentation a little. The reason is that it is hydrodynamic forces that cause expansion, so if fibers plug the tip cavity and reduce the hydrodynamic loading on the cavity walls, expansion can be delayed a little. The effect is greatest with older designs of pistol JHP; some of those won't expand at all if the cavity gets plugged.

 

[-v-]

Mk 255 Mod 0 if you can scrounge some up. Very effective at both minimizing over-penetration and at stopping a bad guy, complete with 12"+ penetration in a frangible format...only caveat is its rarer then Hen's teeth.

Also, considering the mentality of most BG's, I suspect that if you put a sizable hole through their forearm with a 40gr varmit bullet, it'll have a very highly dissuasive effect on them in regards to their current criminal activity, even if it does not achieve the necessary penetration in their thorax to hit vitals.

After all, the point of SD is to STOP the threat. Survival of the BG is not relevant.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I use 40 gr. Moly coated V-max's for HD loads in the AR-15 (110 gr. V-max in the AR-10).

I do have a use for frangibles, but my life isn't on the line when shooting coyotes. I use them because there are enough houses within 500 yards of me that I don't want to risk any sort of ricochet, even just a partial jacket. And Coyotes are much smaller than human assailants, so a few inches of penetration is plenty.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Also, considering the mentality of most BG's, I suspect that if you put a sizable hole through their forearm with a 40gr varmit bullet, it'll have a very highly dissuasive effect on them in regards to their current criminal activity, even if it does not achieve the necessary penetration in their thorax to hit vitals.

While I agree with your assessment, it is a difference in planning outlook. The assessment above requires the same person who entered your home unlawfully and did something that justified lethal force, to change his mind and leave. It relies on his mental state to determine whether the fight continues.

A bullet that continues through the vitals means that the fight is going to end sometime in the next 15 seconds regardless of your attacker's mental state. It takes the choice out of his hands and puts it in yours - although even 10 seconds at household distances is still a long, long time.

 

[briansmithwins]

Of course, you keep shooting until the threat stops. They leave, surrender, or drop to the ground.

One of the advantages of a high capacity rifle is the 30 rounds on tap w/o reloading.

BSW