.223 bolt action...

[Cannibul]

I've wanted a .22 Hornet for years. However the supply of those is scare and when found rather expensive. So I've turned to thinking that a downloaded .223 will do the same thing. .223 brass is easy to find and cheap compared to .22 Hornet, also it;'s easier to reload.

So my real question is should I be looking for an older BA rifle with a 1:12 or 1:10 twist? Or can I go with a 1:9?

I'll mainly be shooting cast bullets in the 40-55 gr range. Since cast bullets are shorter in length than a jacketed bullet of the same weight you can go with the slower twist as bullet length is actually what determine optimum twist rate.

If I should go with an older BA rifle what model(s) would you suggest?

Thanks.

 

[PapaG]

I'm shooting a Savage 11 in 223 and have been playing with both the Lyman 55 grain gas check as well as the Bator 55 grain. I think it was John Barsness a year of two ago who had a whole article on cast bullets in the 223 to duplicate 22LR, 22WMR, 22 hornet (with 45 grain jacketed). I have it somewhere and if I run across it I'll reference it for you,.
I'm also shooting a TC Contender carbine in .223.
Neither has excited me so far but then they both do sub MOA with 55 sierras and 25 grains of Varget.
Next to try is Trail Boss and Blue Dot.

 

[BigBore44]

You might also consider a T/C Venture. Mine is really a tack driver with with 40-55gr bullets. Step up to 69gr bullets and the groups open up around about 1.25". However, I have never shot cast.

 

[jleyring]

Im shooting the Remington 700 ADL Varminter. I got it on a steal of a price with a rebate. Brass is free from the range. Just have to reshape and prep. It makes a super fun rifle to shoot for a low cost. The 700 is great for aftermarket parts to upgrade it. Mine has the 1 in 12 twist and it does fine with the 55gr and 50gr Ive put through it. I can reload the rounds under $0.20 per round so a trip to the range costs under $10. My favorite rifle to shoot.

 

[jmr40]

There is no down side to faster twists with jacketed bullets, no experience with cast in 223 caliber. But I'd not think it would matter much. I have a Ruger American with an 8 twist that shoots 50 gr bullets into tiny groups just as well as 75 gr bullets. Obviously I like the Ruger American, especially the Predator version. But with the cheap 223 factory loads out there I'm betting you end up shooting a lot of jacketed bullets too. Whichever rifle you end up with I'd look for something with an 8 or 9 twist.

 

[wally]

There is no down side to faster twists with jacketed bullets,

Not true, some of the 35-50 gr "varmint" bullets can come apart with the faster twists like 1 in 7. They may shoot OK at 25-50 yards but make little puffs on their way to 100 yards. I've seen it and done it with 50gr SX bullets in my Mini-14 -- decent groups at 50 yards, no marks on the paper at 100.

 

[Varminterror]

I'm very happy with a pair of Savage 12 BVSS Varminters in 223rem, both are 1:9" twists, firing 50grn Vmax's or cheap Rem UMC 50 JHP's into very tiny groups.

 

[TN Outlaw]

CZ 527 in your choice or carbine, standard, target, etc.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

Back in 1991 I picked up a Winchester Mod. 70 Featherweight in 223. If I remember right it has a 1:12 barrel. I use it for hunting groundhogs up in PA on my friend's farm. The last hunt I was pushing Nosler 52gr HPs pretty hot and popping hogs at 150 to 200 yards out.
Of all the rifles out on the market, I like the Winchester action the best. The recoil lug is part of the action. The safety is on the bolt and locks the firing pin. You also don't need tools to filed strip the bolt.

 

[hdwhit]

If you're wanting to get into 22 Hornet territory you'll be shooting light bullets (35 - 50) grains at velocities under 3,000 fps. A 1:12 barrel will easily stabilize those bullets out to most any range you would want to shoot them.

I have some Nosler 35 grain polymer tipped bullets I bought to load into 5.7mm Johnson and they're a real blast to shoot out of 223. Hodgdon says Benchmark can push them above 3800 fps which means by the time your prey hears the shot you've already started dressing it out. I don't know if that's true because my chronograph doesn't register them. I don't know if the bullet is too small to be "seen" or if the thing is so old it can't register above about 3200 fps.

 

[redbullitt]

Be mindful that if you are shooting cast bullets the twist rules are a little different. They generally are shorter, stubbier designs favoring a slower twist that what people like for jacketed. Figure out what velocity you plan to get, and measure the OAL of some of the bullets you would like to use and run them through a stability calculator just to get an idea. Go from there and get the twist that will stabilize what you plan to shoot. For cast I generally do not go faster twist than what is needed.

 

[HOWARD J]

I have a Savage FV 223 w/ a 24 X scope
It is a bench rest shooter only unless you like to lug 10# of heavy barrel rifle.
It is super accurate

 

[MidRoad]

I have a cz527 carbine. Warne quick release rings and a Leupold 2-7 compact. Micro Mauser action is sweet on these guns. Very accurate and with this setup I can bounce between scope and open sights. Only down side is magazine are close to 40 bucks. The rifle isn't as cheap as the Americans or savages, but is every bit as accurate and alot more classy!

 

[greyling22]

I have a 257 roberts I tried some cast bullets in. It was quite some time ago so I don't remember the loads, but they all shot like garbage. tried some gas checked bullets too. more garbage. my rifle has a 1:12 twist. I have up on lead in anything less than 30 caliber since.

I have a mini-mauser in 223 with a 1:12 twist. it shoots 50grn jacketed bullets like lasers, but 55grn bullets open up to 2+ inch groups.

now, if you are looking at shooting lead 40grn bullets out of a bold gun affordably, why not look at a 22lr? or even a 22mag. hack, cz makes 455 that has 22mag and 22lr barrels. I have a 455 as well, and honestly, it shoots better than the 257 and even with the 223 at 100 with good match ammo. (.10/rd)
Lyman's books shows the 22hornet shooting a lead 40grn bullet at 1100fps. 22lr velocities. and creeping up to 1700fps (22mag velocities) But I'd do the 17hmr before I did 22mag. But hey, load lead for the 223, whatever floats your boat. I have even heard of people drilling out the flash hole of a 223, installing a mag primer and shooting a .22 lead pellet out of it. That always sounded interesting.

 

[HOWARD J]

I have a cz527 carbine. Warne quick release rings and a Leupold 2-7 compact. Micro Mauser action is sweet on these guns. Very accurate and with this setup I can bounce between scope and open sights. Only down side is magazine are close to 40 bucks. The rifle isn't as cheap as the Americans or savages, but is every bit as accurate and alot more classy!

I would like to get a 527 in 7.62 x 39
As they are rigged to shoot steelcase ammo.
The biggest problem is that they are quite a bit more expensive than a lot of Savages & the stock is of the quality that you are afraid of scratching it because it is so purddy.
It looks like a great gun---ENJOY

 

[HexHead]

I had a Weatherby Vanguard S2 rifle in .223. It was one of the early ones, with 1:12 twist. Shooting 55 gr. bullets, it was a tack driver.

 

[fpgt72]

I have a cz527 carbine. Warne quick release rings and a Leupold 2-7 compact. Micro Mauser action is sweet on these guns. Very accurate and with this setup I can bounce between scope and open sights. Only down side is magazine are close to 40 bucks. The rifle isn't as cheap as the Americans or savages, but is every bit as accurate and alot more classy!

I love my little 527, it is such fun....and yea the magazines are spendy.

Not sure if I missed it or what, but not sure why you want the 22 hornet. I enjoy the "fast moving" 22's of old...currently on the hunt for a 22HP savage 99. I just like that stuff.

But as to new guns, it was a real toss up between the savage and the CZ, I went CZ because I have others and they shoot real well....I only have older savage rifles.

 

[Cannibul]

I've got a few bolt action .22 LR rifles and I have a Savage B-Mag.

I can reload the .223/.22 Hornet for just about the same price as .22 LR and lots cheaper than the .22 Mag.

I guess I'll look for a 1:12 twist bolt gun.

 

[Legionnaire]

Exactly. If I was looking to emulate the .22 Hornet, 1:12 is how I would go. That twist will easily stabilize the lighter bullets even when loaded up to .223 pressures. I'm quite content with it in my Rem Model 7.

 

[flashhole]

If you handload go with a 221 Fireball. I make 221 brass from 223 brass and have a never ending supply. Fireball ballistics are right on the heels of the 223 using significantly less powder. My Fireball is a Remington 700 all stainless. CZ makes a good gun in the model 527 if you can find one chambered for the Fireball.

 

[JeffG]

My experimentation with downloading and lead bullets with .223 bolt (1-12") was dismal. My same foray with the 25/06 and 308 was/is great. High quality (gas checked) lead bullets are the key.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Hornady 55 gr FMJBT are 0.07 each. Why on earth would you want to use cast at that price? Are you running on SNAP?

No disrespect cause I know some folks that are but they don't shoot.

 

[JeffG]

Hornady 55 gr FMJBT are 0.07 each. Why on earth would you want to use cast at that price? Are you running on SNAP?

No disrespect cause I know some folks that are but they don't shoot.

When cast bullets go right, the accuracy, and fun of shooting them is unsurpassed.

 

[1911 guy]

I had a Remington 700 with 1:12 twist. It positively rocked out with a 45 grain jacketed bullet. If you intend on shooting lighter bullets and cast rather than jacketed, I'd look hard at a 1:12.

 

[CoalTrain49]

When cast bullets go right, the accuracy, and fun of shooting them is unsurpassed.

I use cast in my revolvers and pistols. That's all I use. I don't however in my rifles. My experience with cast in rifles, anything above 1200 fps, was a total disappointment regarding accuracy. I know some guys that shoot cast in rifles and they are satisfied but it's mostly straight walled cartridges. I gave up on it. I'm not saying it can't be done but it has a steep learning curve. The road to perdition.