.223 Case (Really) Stuck in AR15

[IndianaUser]

Two weekends ago I was shooting some steel cased ammunition through my Bushmaster AR15 when one case failed to extract. I separated the lower from the upper and found that the case extracted approximately 5mm before becoming lodged.

I have bent three different cleaning rods trying to dislodge the case. I purchase some Kroil and let it soak around the case for two whole days. Still just as stuck as ever.

I'm out of ideas. Any suggestions?

Thanks!

 

[TonyAngel]

Man, that sounds like it's really stuck. What sort of ammo were you running? What sort of cleaning rods have you bent. I've had this happen a couple of times with steel cased ammo in rifles that were a bit over gassed. I just knocked them out with a steel cleaning rod from a mil surp cleaning kit. Maybe you just need to use a rod that won't bend. Just watch your crown when you slide it down the muzzle.

 

[Walkalong]

A one piece steel rod should do it I would think, or push through the case. Dunno though.

 

[IndianaUser]

Shooting Wolf ammo (surprise, right?)

Two of the rods where the cheap ones that come in Hoppes cleaning kits. The other was a stainless steel from my Cabellas kit. The Cabellas rod is definitely hollow so it didn't really have very much strength. I'm currently looking for some sort of hardened steel rod that will fit down the barrel.

If anyone knows of a cleaning rod that is particularly durable, I'd appreciate the advice.

Thanks!

 

[Tom Krein]

I would try a hard wood dowel. You can usually get them at the hardware store.

IF this doesn't work I would try a solid brass rod or a solid mild steel rod. Either should also be available at the hardware store...

Tom

 

[dom1104]

Everything I read re: Wolf ammo, makes me never, EVER want to try it in my new gun.

 

[IndianaUser]

I've got just under 2,000 rounds left. They won't be going through my gun though....

 

[TonyAngel]

It really doesn't have to be steel. Just solid. When I had the problems that you are having, I used the steel cleaning rod because it's what I had at the range with me. Ideally, something solid and softer than steel would be better. I keep a solid brass rod in my shop for hammer stuff out. It's softer than steel, but works better than aluminum. I ordered mine from onlinemetals.com. I don't know how much it would cost to order just that though. I ordered mine along with a bunch of other stuff.

You could just go to a surplus shop and get a military cleaning kit that comes in the OD pouch. Mine came with a steel rod.

Was this wolf brand ammo? Lacquered case? I'm just wondering. I have nothing against the ammo and shoot lots of it, I'm just trying to narrow down what causes it. I KNOW that is doesn't have anything to do with laquer comeing off of the case and it can happen with brass ammo too. I'm just trying to figure out why it happens.

I believe that I have it narrowed down to being a gas or over gas issue.

Is your barrel chrome lined?

 

[627PCFan]

Ive found a brass rod and the "repeating drop method" works sooner or later. I take it you broke the rods by hammering away on them?

 

[TonyAngel]

OK, missed your post. So it was wolf. Lacquered or poly coated? Military Classic or the black box stuff?

Just FYI, I have shot a lot of wolf, but since discovering Silver Bear (under $5 a box at cheapthandirt) I've been running that. It burns cleaner, is a bit peppier and I've never had any problems with it. This stuff has a zinc coating on it and runs nicely. The 62gr hollow point stuff is actually pretty accurate too.

Well, I have had problems, but it turned out that the rifle that I was shooting it in was over gassed. Once I fixed that problem, I haven't had any others. It seems that the steel cased ammo needs a little extra time to unswell (is that a word?) before the extraction process begins. To slow it down a little, you could try a heavier buffer spring, heavier buffer or an adjustable gas block to allow you to tune the gas system to the load.

I'm not looking to get slammed, but I consider a rifle that won't run on any ammo to have a problem. It may only manifest itself when running certain types of ammo, but it's a problem none the less. The question is whether you want to fix the problem or work around it. Most work around it by sticking to brass cased ammo.

I know I got off topic, but thought I'd share.

 

[BushyGuy]

Is it a live round or is it a spend casing?

If its a live round stuck in the chamber i suggest do not hammer it and tak e it to a gunsmith

 

[IndianaUser]

Tony - You're a huge help.

Here is the ammo I was shooting all day. I did not shoot anything besides these two types of Wold ammo. I believe these are the newer polymer cases.

Finally, here is a picture of the stuck case.

I have absolutely no idea if the barrel is chrome lined.


If it's worth anything, the jam occurred on a single shot and not during rapid fire. I was attempting to zero a new scope.

 

[kanook]

get some acetone and some trans fluid. mix 50 50 and pour down barrel to let soak overnight. Gunk sell a cold/freeze spray. spray the case for about 10-15 sec and then using your dowl rod start pounding away.

 

[TonyAngel]

What make of rifle is it? Those look like laquered cases. Although I've never been able to get the laquer to melt off of the cases, using a torch, the are a bit stickier than the poly stuff. I believe they are anyway.

I just can't figure out why it's so stuck. On the other hand, trying to hammer it out with an aluminum rod and failing may just make it seem to be more stuck than it actually is.

I'm glad that it was a spent casing, because I had assumed that when I posted my last post.

Bushyguy, that was a good catch. I didn't think to ask.

That acetone/tranny fluid deal might work, but I don't know. If the Kroil didn't penetrate it, I don't know what will.

OK, back to the make of the rifle. Some have chrome lined chambers and some don't. Those without may have a bit of a rough chamber surface that can exacerbate the situation.

The bottom line is that if it went in, it's gotta come out. Get yourself a steel cleaning rod and don't be shy about giving it a decent whack or two. If your barrel is not chrome lined and it happens again, you might just want to stick to something that isn't lacquered.

Do you have a heat gun? If you do, you might want to hit the chamber area, after removing anything that will melt, with heat to see if you can get the steel the expand a bit and maybe soften whatever is holding the casing in there. To be clear, I'm not talking about a hair dryer, but a heat gun. I got mine for around $13 at harbor freight. Every home shop should have one, along with duct tape. LOL.

Since you're trying things, WD40 couldn't hurt. Not much of a lubricant, but it penetrates. Just don't put anything flamable down the pipe and then heat it. That might get interesting.

 

[IndianaUser]

I purchased the firearm used. The lower is a Bushmaster and it came in a Bushmaster case. I cannot find a single marking on the upper - no make, model, or serial. I don't know if that is unusual.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu18.htm . I am using this as a reference. My ammo looks like the poly coated.

I am not afraid of giving it a good whack if I can get a rod that will stand up to the whack.

I'm going to Home Depot to see what I can find.

I'll keep you guys updated. I appreciate the help!

 

[Dirtpile]

I would start trying solvents. Acetone should work well on a polycoated case, and lacquer thinner should work well if its a lacquered case. Either way it should have to soak for a while before it penetrates enough into the coating.

If that fails I would put the barrel in the oven at 300-400*F (don't worry about the barrel, it'd have to be heated to over 700*F before damage occurred) for an hour or so then with good gloves and/or oven mitts try knocking the stuck case out.

 

[Ratdog68]

The acetone/tranny fluid mix is a good idea... supposed to be far superior as a penetrating oil than Kroil. I've seen slow jets on carbs that Kroil and a propane torch wouldnt' touch (to free them up so they could be turned/adjusted). I would (however) be very careful with the use of acetone, or some other solvent around any plastic parts (hand guard). Sometimes... funny reactions can take place that leave things undesireable. I'd also use caution with puting plastic things into an oven too.

 

[C-grunt]

Maybe a .223 chamber and 5.56 ammo?

 

[Ratdog68]

Maybe a .223 chamber and 5.56 ammo?

I wondered that too (initially)... but the photo he posted later shows them to be .223 Rem.

 

[TonyAngel]

If you guys are suggesting acetone with the belief that it's going to have some effect on the lacquer on the case, I really don't think it will. A long while ago, I was concerned that the lacquer would melt in my chamber, as the story went on the internet. I read a post by a guy that tried to melt the lacquer off of a case, so I tried it myself. I used a torch, acetone, and every other solvent that I had in my garage/shop. My conclusion was that the stuff doesn't come off.

I wasn't aware that acetone and tranny fluid had better penetrating properties than Kroil. I'm gonna have to keep that in mind. I was under the impression that Kroil was THE penetrating lubricant. I'm glad that I didn't order more than I did.

I don't think it's a case of 5.56 ammo in a .223 chamber. If nothing else, wolf is known for being under powered. It's another reason that I tried Silver Bear. It's hotter.

If the lower is a Bushmaster, then I guess the assumption would be that the upper is as well; but there should be markings of some sort, on the barrel at the least.

Don't worry about all of that other stuff right now. Heat it up, the chamber at least, and use a solid rod. It should come out. The oven idea isn't a bad one, if yours is big enough to fit the whole upper into it. You'd have to get the barrel way hotter than your oven is capable of to mess it up. However hot you get it, just don't do anything that might bend it and don't quench it with water or anything. Let it air cool on its own.

 

[IndianaUser]

Let me get a strong rod first before I trying heating anything up. I'll keep you guys posted.

Thanks!

 

[Ranger Green]

Try a local welding shop. I had the same problem and was referred to a metal shop to look for "Cold rolled" stock. See if they have a .20 " rod and have them cut it to about 2" longer than your barel with flash suppresor length. Good luck.

 

[anthony-white]

Pull the barrel, and drill a self tapping screw into the primer. It will thread into the primer pocket, which is the thickest point of the case. Leave enough room to get a claw hammer on the screw and use the barrel extension for leverage. I've done this and it works.

 

[rino451]

What I've had to do after tearing the case head off a case in a die... Run a tap into the case just enough for it to get a good bite on the case but not penetrate the brass. Then run a rod down from the to of the die (muzzle end in your case) and beat the snot out of it. Let me reiterate "enough for it to get a good bite on the case but not penetrate the brass"

 

[WardenWolf]

Well, if the head separated, I'd say buy a .223 broken shell extractor. But this is another matter. I kind of suspect your AR has an undersized chamber. That would account for what you're seeing here. An out-of-spec chamber would greatly encourage sticking, as would excessive carbon buildup from previously shooting lots of steel-cased ammo without using a chamber brush.

Despite what many people say, newer Wolf is actually very good ammo. It's solid stuff. However, AR-15's tend to be very picky about being dirty. Steel cases don't expand as much when fired as brass does. Because of this, fouling gets back into the chamber. Over time, this fouling builds up to the point where the case actually does seal properly. Of course, this makes the cases fit much tighter, and, over time, can result in stuck cases. Because of this, I really don't recommend shooting steel-cased ammo in a gun that's lacks a chrome-lined chamber. It also can lead to disastrously stuck cases if you try to shoot brass after first shooting steel without a cleaning.