.223 FL resizing issue

[Lr_athlete32]

Hi all, I am new to reloading and while trying to set the shoulder back 0.003 from the fire formed headspace, I realized that I was not actually setting it back at all and ran out of space from the top of the shell holder and bottom of die before I made any change.

I am using a redding type s fl resizing die in a rockchucker press.

This leads me to believe that I have an oddly tight chamber in both my ARs (different brands) as brass fired from both measure the same headspace.

How can this be? So far so far all I can think is that the brass I'm using (lapua) has a lot of spring back as it is brand new.

My loads have been less than hot so could the brass not undergo enough pressure to expand?

Any ideas would be great, thanks in advance.

 

[Bart B.]

Male sure the bottom of the die is hard against the shell holder when the press ram's all the way up pushing the fired case all the way into the die.

Then measure the case headspace to see how much less it is.

 

[Gadawg88]

I don't have an answer to your specific questions, but if after sizing, the brass passes a case gauge and or chambers in your riffles, there is no problem to be fixed. For the AR, don't get too wrapped up in the fine details.

 

[Lr_athlete32]

OK thanks guys, I figured it wasn't too important but wanted to make sure. I ended up just expanding and sizing the necks only and leaving the shoulders where they were.

Thanks for helping me clear this up.

 

[Bartojc]

Make sure your die is hard down on the shell holder. This proper setup should be in your instructions with your dies. Check if the casing will chamber in your rifle. It may be handy to have a case gage and double check that your resized casings are within SAAMI specs. were these shot in your rifle or are they range pick ups ?

It is possible to have a casing pass a case gage, and still not chamber. I just had this issue with my AR. In this case a small base sizing die solved my issue.

You should check your die setup and pass/fail with a case gage before resorting to a different die.

-Jeff

 

[Lr_athlete32]

Thanks Jeff, these were my own cases that I shot. As far as set up, I don't have the instructions with me right now but I do remember reading that the shell holder under no circumstance should come in contact with the die or the treads could be damaged.

I'm my case, even when the dies is touching the shell holder ever so slightly, no setback of the shoulder is occurring.

 

[cfullgraf]

Thanks Jeff, these were my own cases that I shot. As far as set up, I don't have the instructions with me right now but I do remember reading that the shell holder under no circumstance should come in contact with the die or the treads could be damaged.

I'm my case, even when the dies is touching the shell holder ever so slightly, no setback of the shoulder is occurring.

The only die instructions that I have read instructing the user to set the die not touching the shell holder was with carbide dies. You run the risk of cracking the carbide insert.

If you set your die to just touch the shell holder, then run a case in the die, you will see daylight between the die and the shell holder. The load of resizing takes up all the clearances in the press.

So, if you need to set the shoulders back a bit more and the die is not hard against the shell holder with no case in the die, turn the die down a bit more against the shell holder.

 

[Reloadron]

Typical RCBS FL Resizing Die calls for raising the ram with #10 (or correct for .223 Remington) shell holder in place to full stroke. Run the die down till it bumps the shell holder making sure there is no slop. Lower the ram and turn the die in about another 1/8 to 1/4 turn so the press cams over center. I am not going to debate "cam over" and have pretty much quoted the RCBS directions for FL Die Set .223 Remington #11101, the RCBS Small Base T/C dies read the same (1/4 turn) #11107 just as a few examples. Your dies may have slightly different instructions.

What the above will do is set the case shoulder back to SAAMI specifications for a .223 Remington or about a case headspace of 1.4636" as measured from the face of the base of the case to a datum point on the shoulder. Whatever your fired cases are they should exceed that number by some small amount. Generally all you want to do is bump that shoulder back around 0.001" to 0.002". That would mean not running the FL sizing die down that additional 1/8" to 1/4" but only enough to get the desired bump.

My question is how are you measuring the case headspace? Especially to where you can resolve a few thousands of an inch? There are gauges out there to do this and I am wondering what you are using?

Ron

 

[Wildfire]

Next question.

Are you using small base dies?
Most AR chambers will end up needing a small base die.
It may not be the head space giving you problems.

 

[rcmodel]

Most AR chambers will end up needing a small base die.

Certainly not in my experience.

But I've only been reloading .223 for AR's with standard RCBS dies since 1970.

Proper die adjustment is the key.

See post #8 for how to do that.

rc

 

[Walkalong]

Small base dies size the body a smidge more, but that has nothing to do with getting the shoulder right.

 

[Wildfire]

I must have read his question totally wrong.
From the "Oddly tight chambers" thing must have tossed me way off subject.

 

[zeke]

Have had problems with Redding sb 223 and 308 dies being able to set the shoulder back. Tried RCBS sb dies, problem solved. Have not noticed the same with regular redding fl dies.

Am firm believer in setting the shoulder back a couple thousands for semi's. Especially those with a floating firing pin.

First thing to consider is using a redding shell holder with redding dies. Even different shell holders from same maker may have tolerance differences.

 

[Walkalong]

I must have read his question totally wrong.

Me too, but he specifically mentions shoulder position and how he can't move it back, so that is what I went with.

While it is possible a properly adjusted die won't move the shoulder at all, it isn't common.

 

[Lr_athlete32]

Thanks for the replies and sorry for not being more clear with the "tight chamber" thing.

However, I chronographed my loads and found out they were way under powered (not dangerous, just on the very low side).

I believe the underpowered loads are not producing enough pressure to expand the case to the chamber size. I do have hotter loads ready to test this weekend and will see if they fix the problem.

As for my headspace tool, it's a Sinclair comparator tool.

Thanks for all the help with proper die set up as well.

 

[Blue68f100]

Have your gun checked with a Go gauge and see if it closes on it. Normally when you having this problem the chamber was never finished reamed.

 

[Damon555]

As mentioned above you don't really need to use a small base die for an AR. Be careful just sizing the necks though. You might end up with some rounds that don't fully chamber. I'd set the die up the way the instructions tell you to and go with that.