223 full size die

[Chetc]

i am presently loading 223 for my ar 15 using the Lee standard dies, not having any issues, but i want to try a new 223 full sizing die from another company, was looking at the RCBS brand, i am curious what are the differences between the standard die, X die and the competition dies, also the Forster dies looks good too, i do want to get the most truest dies that have the least run out, do i need carbide ect, any suggestions a good die that i am looking for.



Chet

 

[fotheringill]

I have the RCBS Competition full length sizing die.

I would suggest you look into Redding "S' bushing dies.

 

[Reloadron]

The RCBS X-Die:

Trim a bottleneck case once—and never trim again with the X Die Full Length Die Set, which includes an X Die Sizer and Standard Seater Die. The sizer features a specially designed mandrel with an expander ball and decapping pin attached...

Small base dies are dies cut tighter at the base so when resizing the push in the base of the case a little more than a standard die.

RCBS Small Base 2-Die sets are useful for reloaders loading for semi-automatic, pump action and lever action rifles to help ensure that proper functioning. Small base sizing dies size brass to minimum specifications and help to ensure that cartridges will chamber every time. Due to the fact that this product sizes more than regular dies, it is crucial to have a sufficient amount of high quality lubricant to prevent stuck cases.

COMPETITION FULL-LENGTH DIE SET:

RCBS® Competition Dies are meant for reloading bottleneck cartridges for competitive marksmen who measure success in fractions of a millimeter. This two-die set’s Full-Length Sizer takes cases to SAAMI minimums. It features a raised expander ball to allow extra leverage for smooth, effortless neck expansion (.204 and .25 do not feature a raised expander ball). The Seater Die doesn’t crimp; it features a micrometer for super accurate bullet seating depth in increments of 0.001 inch, as well as a bullet loading window and a seating guide that ensures correct bullet alignment before and after seating. Note: Not for use with progressive reloading presses; competition dies do not require neck bushings.

Each have their advantages. It is also argued using small base dies works the brass more and reduces its life. I throw my brass away after 4 loadings in 223 Remington and 308 Winchester so wouldn't know.

If what you have works for you and you are making good ammunition I see no need to change dies but it's your money. I use the RCBS Comp FL set but mainly because it makes seating flat based bullets uniformly a dream. I also have standard and a small base set which with 4 AR rifles I have yet to need to use.

Ron

 

[cfullgraf]

I'm a fan of small base sizing dies for cases to be used in AR-15s in particular. Not really needed for the most part but a good insurance policy against oversize bodies when sizing cases not fired in your rifle.

I generally recommend that folks buying dies for the first time for an AR-15, or in your case, buying a new set of dies, get a small base sizer die. If you already have dies and they work fine, there is no need to run out and get a small base sizer.

do i need carbide...

Chet

Unlike carbide dies for straight wall cases such as hand gun cartridges, bottle neck carbide dies still require lubrication. No advantage there over steel dies.

The carbide bottle neck rifle dies are for high volume loaders such as police departments or competitors who do wear out steel. Carbide dies are expensive.

As Reloadron said, it's your money but I suggest to save the cost on the carbide die and put the money into some other die or reloading widget.

Competition seater dies with micrometer seating stems are nice if you shoot a variety of bullets. The micrometer seating stem makes it easy to go back to a seating setting for a particular bullet. That assumes you have recorded the setting, of course.

The micrometer stem also makes it easy to dial in a desired seating depth. Need to shorten the COL .005"? Crank the micrometer seater down .005 and you are there.

All the major manufacturers make excellent dies. Each has slightly different features. Get the features that fit your reloading process.

 

[JimKirk]

Those Forster dies are top of the line ... you won't go wrong with a set of them ... check out the expander ball location ...

 

[Bartojc]

i am presently loading 223 for my ar 15 using the Lee standard dies, not having any issues, but i want to try a new 223 full sizing die from another company, was looking at the RCBS brand, i am curious what are the differences between the standard die, X die and the competition dies, also the Forster dies looks good too, i do want to get the most truest dies that have the least run out, do i need carbide ect, any suggestions a good die that i am looking for.







Chet

If what you have is working I'd leave it alone. I'm my case my Lee FL resized was not getting the job done.

You could use the $50 for something else couldn't you ?

Jeff

 

[Chetc]

You are right Jeff, but was itchin to try another set, the lee's were doing their job, i hope i make some progress on a bit tighter groups out of my Ar 15 with the Forster Die set i ordered.

Chet

 

[Reloadron]

You are right Jeff, but was itchin to try another set, the lee's were doing their job, i hope i make some progress on a bit tighter groups out of my Ar 15 with the Forster Die set i ordered.

Chet

Let's hope they work out for you. My tighter groups came more with the choice of bullet ad powder charge and manufacturer. All of MY AR-15 rifles are a 1:7 twist so for the AR guns I like running with bullets in the 69 to 80 grain range. I lean towards Sierra but have some Hornady and Nosler in the mix and even some lighter 50 grain Dogtown for the bolt gun. I never had the best of groups shooting the lighter 50 and 55 grain bullets in the 1:7 twist guns. Maybe I just didn't try enough loads.

Anyway, once you have some data with the new dies post back with how things are going.

Ron

 

[Chetc]

picked up a set of Forster dies

i picked up a new set of Forster 004101 BR 223 dies set, question i have is when doing the bullet seating, are you guys using the shell holder to contact the bottom of the die to control the OLAL, or using the non contact shell holder to the die and using the press bottomed out to control the OAL, from what i read on the instruction sheet the latter method is what Forster wants. i find that method a poor way to control the OAL

Chet

 

[Reloadron]

Things should go like this:

4.0 CASE SIZING PROCEDURE
1. Install the Die into any standard 7/8-14 thread reloading press or Forster’s Co-Ax® Reloading Press so that it makes contact with the shell holder when the ram is at its uppermost position.
2. Turn the Die another 1/8 to ¼ turn against the shell holder to remove all play from the linkage system of the press.
3. Tighten the Cross Bolt Die Lock Ring (DIE-G-10) by using a 7/64 short arm hex key on the Die Lock Ring Screw (6-32 X ½ ").
4. Insert a case into the reloading press.
5. Size the case by actuating the reloading press. (Ensure the bottom of the Die makes complete contact with the shell holder.) This operation reduces the outside case diameter, removes the spent primer, and expands the case neck inside diameter. It also may stretch the case neck, so check the overall case length and trim if necessary.
6. Remove the sized case from the Die.
7. The case is now ready for priming and powder charge.

You install the correct shell holder. You run the ram all the way up on the press. You screw the die down till it contacts the shell holder. You lower the ram and turn the die another 1/8th to 1/4 turn. That is generally how most full length sizing dies are set and adjusted. The BR dies I would think are the same?

Ron

 

[Chetc]

HI Ron

maybe i should redo my post, the post was about bullet seating.

Chet

 

[Reloadron]

HI Ron

maybe i should redo my post, the post was about bullet seating.

Chet

Guess I read into that all wrong. You were crystal clear, I just managed to misread the heck out of it.

My read from these instructions would be:

4.0 BULLET SEATING PROCEDURE
1. Ensure the Die Body (L-30) is securely threaded to the Sleeve (O-30).
2. With the press ram and shell holder at their highest points, screw the die into the press until the bottom of the sliding Die Chamber (P-30) touches the shell holder.
3. Continue screwing the die clockwise until you have fully compressed the sliding Die Chamber. Next, back it off at least one full turn because the Die Chamber should never be fully compressed when seating bullets. a. Turn the Cross Bolt Die Lock Ring (G-10) clockwise into firm contact with the top of the press.
4. Tighten the Cross Bolt Die Lock Ring by using a 7/64” short arm hex key on the Die Lock Ring Screw (6-32 X ½ ").
5. Screw the Bullet Seating Stem (J-30) almost all the way out of the Die Body (L-30), but do not allow it to come out of the Die Chamber (P-30).
6. Lower the shell holder of your press.
7. Place a sample cartridge (setup round) of the correct length in the shell holder of your press.
8. Raise the shell holder to its highest position by pulling the press handle completely down.
9. Screw the Bullet Seating Stem down until it contacts the bullet of your "setup round". 10. Tighten the Lock Nut (A-10, K-30).
11. Remove the setup round from shell holder. The die is now properly set in your press for accurate bullet seating.
12. Check the cartridge length after seating the first bullet. Adjust the Bullet Seating Stem to lengthen or shorten the cartridge, if needed.

The Sliding Die Chamber should move freely within the die body, so with the shell holder installed on the press run the ram all the way up. Screw the die down and as you screw it down that sliding chamber should begin to disappear into the die body, keep screwing the die body down till the die body bumps the shell holder and the sliding die chamber is inside the die body. Lower the ram ad screw the die out one full turn. What this does is set the die body up, the bullet seating stem should be backed out. Once the die is set then they move on to using a test round with a seated bullet to setup the seater stem. If you don't have one you can take an empty round and with the stem backed out slowly start seating a bullet turning the stem in and measuring in steps till the bullet is seated and you have the COAL you want.

I use an RCBS Comp FL set which is similar. Hopefully someone will come along with what you have and maybe fix what I may have wrong.

Ron

 

[Chetc]

HI Ron

Thanks, i did read what you posted, wonder if i bottomed the shell holder against the body by a few thousands and try it, i left Forster an email, but still awaiting on their response.

Chet

 

[Reloadron]

The Forrester guys will get back to you but it can take a few days. Try those destructions err instructions step by step. Things should work.

Ron

 

[hdwhit]

Dance with the girl that brung ya'

If your dies are working fine, stick with them.

The only upgrade I would suggest would be to get a carbide expander ball which saves having to lubricate the inside of the case necks. You can get them from places like Midway or Midsouth Shooter's Supply for about $30.

I have dies from RCBS, Lee, Hornaday and Lyman. They all do the job I bought them to do and except for my recently purchased 9 mm dies, have done so for decades.

RCBS has been the real stand-out in customer service. I recently had an issue with a custom die set I had bought from them more than 20 years ago. I wrote them about it and asked if I could buy a replacement component. After a very cordial e-mail exchange where the customer service representative verified that my suspicion was correct, the part showed up in the mail a couple of days later. The shipping document was marked for a "warranty" issue.

 

[Chetc]

thought i will give my input on these new Forster 223 BR dies, i purchased the 2 die set, they do produce a load that has 1/2 the runout of my other 223 dies, i am seeing .0015 max runout.and have shot my tightest groups so far with my S&W MP 15T, for awhile i was not super impressed with the MP 15T, but after a visit to the range yesterday, the gun is a keeper. shooting the 50 & 55 Vmax bullets, the 55's around 3/4" and the the 50's jut at 1/2" all brass was fully prepped and same HS

Chet

 

[Reloadron]

thought i will give my input on these new Forster 223 BR dies, i purchased the 2 die set, they do produce a load that has 1/2 the runout of my other 223 dies, i am seeing .0015 max runout.and have shot my tightest groups so far with my S&W MP 15T, for awhile i was not super impressed with the MP 15T, but after a visit to the range yesterday, the gun is a keeper. shooting the 50 & 55 Vmax bullets, the 55's around 3/4" and the the 50's jut at 1/2" all brass was fully prepped and same HS

Chet

Don't you love it when a plan starts to come together? Glad this is really going well for you.

Ron

 

[Bart B.]

Sizing die instructions are what they are so a fired case from any rifle will chamber in another one. That's all, folks.

Following full length sizing die instructions to set them up in the press typically set the fired case shoulder back too far. Especially with barrel chambers at the long end of specs for breech fact to shoulder reference. Firing cases so sized lets them stretch way too much in the body which leads to head separation.

Use a gauge to measure fired case headspace then set the die to bump bottleneck case shoulder back about .002" and no more for bolt guns. Better accuracy and very long case life will happen.