.223 powder with better port preasure?

[mookiie]

I have a .223 I put together the lower on and purchased an upper. Last time I was at the range I had quiet a few failures to feed and failures to clear the ejection port. I got a lot of advice on possible causes, but at the time port preasure never came up. Anyway I am wondering if that is my problem. I am using IMR 4064 - it cycles fine in my stag arms model 3, however does not work in the aforementioned AR. I have plans to get to the range to use factory ammo, but I was hoping someone coud reccomend a powder with better port preasure. That way I can try both powders, or several at the same time to help nail down a cause. I also plan to bring 223 factory ammo to make sure the rifle will cycle that, as I did not have any on my first trip - last time I make that mistake!

Thanks!

 

[mookiie]

The only powder I have on hand is IMR 4198, and AA1680, but I can always go track something down to test it so suggest away!

 

[MrCleanOK]

What else have you tried to correct the problem? Powder isn't the first place I'd be looking for a solution.

 

[itsa pain]

I do not think the ar's are that sensitive to powder like M1A being no operating rod. I would check to see if the gas port on the barrel is lined up with the sight or gas block

 

[briansmithwins]

I agree that you need to test with some factory ammo before doing anything else.

If it still doesn't work, I'd compare the gas port diameter in both you rifles (assuming they are the same configuration, you didn't say) and see if the new one is smaller.

Also, how hot are your reloads? What velocities are you getting?

BSW

 

[mtrmn]

TAC, AA2230, X terminator, H335, 4895, any powder close to these on a burn rate chart.

TAC is my go-to nowdays, I have a pretty good supply.

 

[Ar180shooter]

What else have you tried to correct the problem? Powder isn't the first place I'd be looking for a solution.

I agree, also with what briansmith said. Try some M193 or M855 spec ammo and see how it does. Also, have you ruled out the mags as a potential source of some of the failures?

 

[itsa pain]

if the gas port on the barrel does not line up with the one on the gas block or site like just halfway you will get many failures. powder burning rate hardly matters with DI system length of the barrel will make a difference in port pressure be the hole on the barrel is closer to receiver in a carbine

 

[mookiie]

Yes I have tried other stuff to correct the issue. I WANT to specifically focus on powder to eliminate it as a possible cause. It would be best for me to have several powders to see which works best. I am going to bring factory ammo as well, I just want to have several handload recipes, hopefully they all work and I can pick the one that shoots best. I REALLY DON'T want to discusses possible causes of the failures in the AR that is not what this thread is about.

 

[Ar180shooter]

Yes I have tried other stuff to correct the issue. I WANT to specifically focus on powder to eliminate it as a possible cause. It would be best for me to have several powders to see which works best. I am going to bring factory ammo as well, I just want to have several handload recipes, hopefully they all work and I can pick the one that shoots best. I REALLY DON'T want to discusses possible causes of the failures in the AR that is not what this thread is about.

The point is that powder choice is one of the least likely causes of the malfunction (assuming you're following the specs in your reloading manual). It is far better to check other things such as the gas port first, and this is assuming it is not functioning with factory ammo. Also, I would start at minimum charge, and have a series all the way up to max charge, and test them all for reliability as sometimes min charges are not enough to cycle the action on a semi. Quite often, by the time you get to a higher charge, some reliability issues go away. If you're at max charge with several powders (including factory ammo) and there are still issues, the problem is likely the rifle. You shouldn't have powder related issues if you're following the recommended powders in your reloading manuals (you should have more than 1).

Also, the fact that your reloads function fine in your other AR is a strong indication that powder selection and charge weight are not the issue.

 

[mookiie]

My point was I already have a list of things to try from a separate thread and really just want suggestions for preferred powders for the 223 cartridge.

 

[Reloadron]

My point was I already have a list of things to try from a separate thread and really just want suggestions for preferred powders for the 223 cartridge.

You don't mention a bullet weight but in general for 223 55 grain bullets I like:
VihtaVuori N133 and N135
H335 (I use a magnum primer with the H335)

While I have used powders like IMR 4064 and IMR 4895 they are not powders I like in 223. That is just to say I prefer the first powders I mentioned first and the VihtaVuori powders are among my favorites, likely from being brainwashed by bench rest shooters at the range I shoot at.

Do you have any good loading manuals?

Ron

 

[Ar180shooter]

My point was I already have a list of things to try from a separate thread and really just want suggestions for preferred powders for the 223 cartridge.

Well, you asked in your original post if port pressure might be the problem. Most of the responses have been "probably not". Try out some factory ammo and see if it functions properly first, rather than going out and buying 10 lbs of assorted powders when powder selection may not even be the issue.

Barrel length?
Twist?
Gas system length?
Projectile weight?

Those four things may have an impact on what powder may work best for you, but you make no mention of any of those in your post. What works in my rifle probably won't work in yours, and vice-versa. The best way to find out what powder works best in your rifle is to test different loads in your rifle. Most manuals also have service rifle data, I'd start there.

Personally, I use BLC(2). It can be temperature sensitive, but meters nicely so mass reloading is easier.

 

[M1key]

I have used Accurate 2015, 2460, and Varget for years in several AR-15s (5.56 Nato chambers). My pet load for 55 grain bullets is 24.0gr of 2015 with CCI or Federal primers. For 69-77 grain bullets, I use 24.5 grains of Varget.

Good luck

M

 

[mookiie]

1:9 twist
20" barrel
I am not sure about gas system length.
55 grn projectiles

 

[jerkface11]

A new upper will often require a break in period before it will function with less than full powered ammo.

 

[Ramone]

I use both Varget and Benchmark for my .223 loads- according to this chart:

http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html

Both are faster than 4046, but not some much so that I think there'd be an issue.

a new upper does need a few rounds to seal the barrel/gas block and gas block/gas tube joint with carbon, and the bolt/Bolt Carrier/Upper fit might be a little tight as well, so I always use Lake City M855 for the first ~100 rounds, having seen many short stroking issues that ended up being related to slightly weak loads in brand new rifles. If it doesn't cycle correctly with the M855, there is definitely an issue.

 

[d_michael]

a friend of mine and i went shooting last weekend with an aquaintance, and his rifle after less than ten rounds would not cycle/extract the fired round. at first we thought it was the junk aluminum cased ammo he was shooting, but it wouldn't work with proven handloads either. he assembled the rifle himself with an upper put together by someone else, and you guessed it, we finally determined the gas block was not properly aligned over the barrel port. once we got the gas block where it needed to be the rifle functioned flawlessly.

 

[dprice3844444]

1. make sure you have the extractor spring upgrade kit.(helps eliminate problems before they start.
2. like previous post said,gas port alignment with gas block should be checked if it's one of those blocks held on by set screws
3. proper lubrication
4. try some military ball to see how well that functions.if not,see #2

 

[rcmodel]

It's not the powder.

IMR-4064 is on the slow side for the .223 with 55 & 60 grain bullets, and a Max load is a compressed charge.

That tells me port pressure is already high enough and a faster powder won't make it higher.

You have something else wrong.

What bullet weight & powder charge were you using??

rc

 

[waffentomas]

Try AR Comp, CFE 223 if you can find them.

Varget, H322 or 8208 are options.

 

[JDGray]

Never had an issue with H335 in my ARs

 

[Mobuck]

Just my opinion but 4064 is too slow. There are so many better choices as to make the use of this burn rate powder illogical. I would try some factory ammo and see if the problem continues. You may be getting short stroking for any number of reasons.

 

[elwoodm]

the length of the gas tube is a big factor on ar's but i side with rc it's not the powder. always wanted a 20 inch upper but my 16 inch carbine gas tube is hard enough to keep clean can't think of keeping a mid or full length tube clean on a 20 inch upper. make sure your bolt is set up right and lubed for the break in.

 

[rcmodel]

my 16 inch carbine gas tube is hard enough to keep clean can't think of keeping a mid or full length tube clean

Gas tubes are self cleaning.

You do not need to clean them.

More gas tubes have been ruined by a pipe cleaner stuck inside them then have ever been ruined by not cleaning them.

All you need to clean is the outside of the end that sticks out and goes inside the gas key on the bolt carrier.

rc