.223 remington OAL bullet seating question

[Keeperfaith]

I am totally new at reloading. Today I was practicing and reloaded a dummy round for ,223 before i start reloading w/ powder and primer.

I am using a Lee hand press (baby steps) and the dummy round I loaded measured OAL: 2.251. Using a digital calipure.

The Lee data said the OAL should be 2.260.

I compared my dummy round to a factory loaded round and the factory round was 2.252.

Am I way off or is this an acceptable tolerance for .223 Remington for my AR-15 semi-auto rifle?

Also, the cannalure for my dummy round was not even into the brass case, the factory round had the cannalure showing slightly (if this helps). The bullet im using is a 55 grain Jacketed SPT bullet, I can't recall what the factory round I used for comparison is in grains, but it is a FMJ.

I then used a Lee factory crimp die to crimp my dummy round.

The 49th Lymans manuel I'm using states a 2.260 OAL for the bullet and powder I plan to use.

Thanks in advance,
Steve

 

[NeuseRvrRat]

2.251" is fine. 2.260" is a maximum COAL, and is only the max because of standard magazine length.

i usually seat to the cannelure and lightly crimp there for an AR-15

 

[ranger335v]

"The Lee data said the OAL should be 2.260. I compared my dummy round to a factory loaded round and the factory round was 2.252. Am I way off or is this an acceptable tolerance for .223 Remington for my AR-15 semi-auto rifle?"

The differences are telling you there is no "should be" about it and a difference of only 8 thou is no difference at all.. Book OAL is what they used to develop the data, nothing more. You can start with book or factory or neither, then develop your charge. Tweak seating later if you wish.

 

[Walkalong]

Seat them to the cannelure and that is the right OAL for that bullet.

That said, you do not have to seat them to the cannelure, and you do have some leeway, but any bullet with a cannelure was designed to be seated to the cannelure.

 

[jwrowland77]

+1 on what ranger said.

I reload for my daughters .223 single shot. Well when I first started I used a OAL of 2.232. Recently I got a Hornady modified case and gauge to figure out the max OAL (touching LnG) and hers was 2.285. So I will actually be loading her bullets at 2.265 now, which as you can see is longer than the max OAL, but she will now only have a jump of .02 now. This is with a Hornady V-max.

Now if I load her other Hornady bullet, I have to load at 2.145 to give the same .02 jump.

Your OAL is all going to depend on the ogive of the bullet you're reloading. She has a single shot Rossi, so I don't have to worry about any round trying to fit in a magazine.

I hope this helps some.

 

[Gtimothy]

+1 on what ranger said.

I reload for my daughters .223 single shot. Well when I first started I used a OAL of 2.232. Recently I got a Hornady modified case and gauge to figure out the max OAL (touching LnG) and hers was 2.285. So I will actually be loading her bullets at 2.265 now, which as you can see is longer than the max OAL, but she will now only have a jump of .02 now. This is with a Hornady V-max.

Now if I load her other Hornady bullet, I have to load at 2.145 to give the same .02 jump.

Your OAL is all going to depend on the ogive of the bullet you're reloading. She has a single shot Rossi, so I don't have to worry about any round trying to fit in a magazine.

I hope this helps some.

While it is possible and desirable in some cases to load to a longer COAL for a single shot rifle, a length longer than the OAL for the bullet he is using may not fit into a magazine for his AR-15! Seat to the cannelure and use a slight crimp to prevent bullet setback due to recoil.

 

[rcmodel]

2.260" is the MAX OAL for any bullet in the .223.

It is not the recommended length.

As said, seat to the cannulure and the OAL will be correct for that bullet.

rc

 

[Fisherdave10]

When I first started loading .223 for my AR, I had the same confusion, especially when I bought a bag of random 55gr FMJ pulled bullets. The cannelures were in different locations for most of the bullets.

Seat to the cannelure. Different bullet profiles are going to be seated differently.

When seated to the cannelure, a Hornady 55gr FMJ-BT is seated significantly longer than a 55gr Hornady SP would be. That's just the way the bullets were designed.

 

[Keeperfaith]

Ok, I've crimped my dummy round. Can I just seat it deeper to the cannalur?
Of do I have to pull it out, resize the brass and then re-seat the bullet & crimp again?

Noob question but I'm still learning.
Thanks again steve

 

[rcmodel]

You should be able to seat it deeper unless you actually crimped it to the point it cut into or through the bullet jacket.

Only way to find out is to try it.

If you don't have a scrap brass box full of mistakes, you ain't trying hard enough!

rc

 

[Keeperfaith]

Also. Can anyone tell me if they have loaded 223 rounds with a much shorter OAL than my dummy round (2.251)?
What was the length?

Another question, can I still use my Lyman's manual data for powder or do I need to adjust the amount of powder depending on how deep the bullet is seated?
Thanks again
Steve

PS: I'm sure I'll have more questions, I appreciate all the help.

 

[rcmodel]

If you have a Lyman manual, you will find the suggested OAL in the data section for every bullet used. And most of them will be different.

A quick glance shows the 40 grain V-Max loaded 2.215", the 50 grain Blitz loaded 2.235", and some of the really heavy match bullets as long as 2.550"

If you stick to the suggested OAL for the bullet design & weight you are using, there is no need to adjust the powder charge.

rc

 

[W.E.G.]

2.250" is the generally-accepted maximum OAL for ammo that has to be reliable from the magazine.

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[helotaxi]

I've loaded plenty of FMJs and 50-55gn hollow points to 2.200" and the Hornady manual has many loads listed at that OAL. It's not something to stress about until you start pushing the 2.260" max length.

 

[Walkalong]

I have been loading these Winchester 55 Gr FMJ-BT bullets at 2.230 to 2.235 OAL, but the cannelures are all over the place, so I give them a light taper crimp instead of a light roll crimp. I am out of the Winchester, and will be loading the ones I bought from Berrys a few years back. The cannelure on them is much more consistent. The most consistent cannelure I have seen on 55 Gr FMJ-BT bullets have been the Hornady.

 

[Keeperfaith]

Hey guys I tried chambering my dummy round into my AR.
The round didn't go in all the way (the bolt was noticeably further back).

But my dummy is approximately the same length as my factory ammo...

Any ideas why this happened?

PS: the dummy has four holes drilled into it. The brass body is not as smooth as a normal non drilled piece of brass. Perhaps this is the reason for poor chambering.?



Oh and one of you guys mentioned taper and roll crimp.
What's the difference? How do you achieve each one?

My Lee set came w/ a factory crimp die... Is that for taper/ roll crimp? Both?

Which one should I try to do?


Steve

 

[helotaxi]

The Factory Crimp Die creates a profile crimp which is neither a roll crimp or a taper crimp.

Many reasons that your dummy round isn't chambering. Make sure that you're getting the case sized all the way. Size a case and see if just a case will chamber. If it won't, you have a sizing problem which is either die setup or lube related 99% of the time. Since you're using the hand press, I would guess its a problem with the die setup and/or not getting the die bottomed out on the shell holder when sizing a case.

 

[rcmodel]

In order to get a round to chamber, it has to fit before you load a bullet in it and crimp it.
If you didn't try that, it could be a sizing issue.

But I would have to say the chances are about 101% you buckled the case shoulder trying to crimp in the wrong place on the bullet.
Without the case mouth and cannelure matching up, there is no place for the crimp to go.
So the case shoulder buckles to make room for it.

And a buckled case shoulder you can't even see with the naked eye-ball will not chamber.

If in doubt, color the round all over with a dry erase marker and try to chamber it.
When the marker rubs off and you see shiny brass case?
That right there is your problem!


As for taper & roll crimp.
Taper just straightens the end of the case on straight-wall auto pistol calibers.

Roll-crimp rolls the end of the case into the bullet cannelure or lead bullet crimp groove.

I'll let you guess which one your Lee seating die for the .223 is supposed to do.

The Lee rifle caliber FCD is a collet crimp die that squeezes the end of the case tighter into the bullet cannulure.

It is neither a taper crimp, or a roll crimp.
It is a collet crimp.

rc

 

[Walkalong]

With a roll crimp, the case mouth is rolled fairly abruptly into the cannelure.

With a taper crimp, the case mouth is gently pushed, on a slight taper, into the bullet.

Your FCD rifle crimp die uses a collet to push straight in against the bullet. It is neither a roll or a taper crimp, but closer to a taper crimp. There is no taper though, a small portion of the case neck is pushed straight in against the bullet.

Roll Crimp on a Winchester 55 Gr FMJ in .223.

Taper Crimp on a Winchester 55 Gr FMJ in .223.

An FCD factory crimp for rifle.

 

[Walkalong]

But I would have to say the chances are about 101% you buckled the case shoulder trying to crimp in the wrong place on the bullet.

Yep, very good chance of it.

 

[Keeperfaith]

Ok I think I know what the problem is. When I was de-priming the .223 brass I tried to follow the instructions for the die position. I felt as if the re-sizing wasn't done right. Only the top half of the neck was re-sized, the bottom half was not. Now it makes sense why it won't chamber...

As far as case buckling... I don't know if that happened....
Will tht ruin a case if you buckle it?

I'm going to re-size my dummy and seat the bullet to the cannalure next time.

Well see if I get some better results.

Thanks again you guys.
Steve

 

[Walkalong]

If you are neck sizing only, that could be your problem. if you are FL sizing, and you only sized half the neck, you do not have the sizer adjusted any where near right.

 

[rcmodel]

Screw the sizing die down tight against the shell holder..
Then add another 1/8 or so turn more.

Only then is all the press flex taken out when under full pressure resizing the case.

And only then will the case be resized back like it was to begin with.

A buckled shoulder will resize and work the next time around when you get done resizing it correctly.



Just keep in mind the INSIDE of the sizing die is slightly smaller then the OUTSIDE of a factory case.

You have to stuff ALL the expanded case inside it to squeeze it back down where it all came from before you shot it and it got hit with 55,000 PSI internal pressure and expanded to fit your over-size rifle chamber.

You want to put it all back where it came from.
And the only way to do that is by adjusting the die to bump the shell holder at full press travel.

rc

 

[Keeperfaith]

Thanks RC, I adjusted the die just now and re-resized an empty case...

The neck was resized all the way. I'll try chambering tomorrow. I appreciate the help.

Now I did notice that after I resized 50 cases last night (incorrectly btw...I'll fix em) I found a lot of crushed walnut media on the shell holder and on the ring of the slot the holder snaps into... I guess a case brush is in order to clean them out before I even start de-priming??
Thanks
Steve

 

[W.E.G.]

If you are not using a proper case gage to measure the dimensions of your resized cases, you are just guessing at the dimensions of your loaded rounds.

If rounds are loaded without the benefit of a case gage (especially if the rounds are used in a semi-auto firearm), it will only be by luck that the rounds actually function without various serious issues.

Please get a proper case gage, learn how to use it, and start over.