223REM resizing die problem

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PhilMc

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Have been resizing some 223 brass using my Lee dies. At some point I ran into a stuck case and didn't want to deal with it right away.

No big deal I have a brand new set of RCBS group AR 223 dies on the shelf, part # 11107. Got thru all my cases that I wanted to do. Started sorting out the cases that were going to need trimming. Went to put one in my RCBS trimmer and found the case wouldn't slip over the alignment pilot. Tried a few more and found that none of the cases I resized with the RCBS dies would slip over the pin.

All cases passed a case gauge test.

Upon checking the ID's and OD's of cases found that:
Lee cases ID=.218" OD=.244"
RCBS cases ID=.215" OD=.241"

Note: alignment pilot is .218" on the case trimmer, also wouldn't fit on a Lee trimmer.


Resized all the RCBS cases with a Hornady 223 resizing die and got the same numbers as the Lee dies.

Anyone have thoughts on this?

Is this normal for the "Group AR" dies compared to their "Group A" dies?

Phil
 
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It definitely sizes tighter. Perhaps the expander is too small. Call RCBS.

Oh, there was an expander ball in the die, right? :)
 
Took me a minute to figure out what the "alignment pin" you're referring to is.

It's a .22 caliber pilot, now I got it. I had a trimmer pilot or two that were a little tight. I took them out, chucked them into a variable speed drill in a vice and took some medium / fine sandpaper and sanded the pilot down just a bit, checking often and being careful not to over do it. That fixed it for me.

The RCBS expander ball does seem to be a bit on the small side.
 
Went down to the reloading room and checked all the expander sizes on my 223 dies

Lee-.223"
RCBS AR "old set" .221"
RCBS AR "new set" .218" ( one I used that created problem )
Hornady .223

Measured these with a Brown & Sharpe mic

The RCBS trimmer pilot measures .2185"
The Lee Trimmer guide rod measures .219"
 
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Looking at 3 sets of RCBS dies and the expander ball:

PN: 37201 Group: Competition
PN: 11107 Group: AR
PN: 11101 Group: A

While there are a few minor cosmetic differences all of the expander balls measure 0.222". All 3 die sets are identical diameter expander balls.

Looking at my RCBS case trimmer my 22 pilot measures a 0.219" diameter.

I may have some 223 Lee dies around here somewhere but haven't a clue where they might be.

Ron
 
Just talked to a tech at RCBS about my neck sizing problem who wasn't much help. Asked him if it was normal for the AR group 223 dies to make the neck smaller which would prevent it from slipping onto a trimmer pilot.

Told him the dies are giving me brass with necks sized .003" smaller on the ID and OD. Quizzed him on whether the regular dies would give me similar numbers as the Lee's and Hornady's. He didn't seem to know.

I am starting to think that this .003" smaller is normal for these die's. This would mean I might have to use a better trimmer to size the necks on the cases from these dies.

He did give me the standard line about sending some fired cases along with the dies to RCBS. Just not real impressed with the level of knowledge about these dies he seemed to have.
 
That's not normal. Small base dies are supposed to make the case body about a mic smaller. Not the case neck 3-4 mics too small.

There's no reason to size/expand a case neck that small unless you plan to load bullets that are 0.220" in diameter!

When you go to seat bullets, you will see why. A .224" flat base bullet will not seat at all. A boat tail might seat with some scraping, or it might just collapse the neck/shoulder. Even if they do seat, the bullet will not be as concentric as it could be.

It sounds like your 223 sizing die is pretty tight in the neck to begin with. If I used a .218 expander ball with my size die, it wouldn't even touch the inside of the necks on 99% of my cases. The final OD of the neck would be set by the sizing die, allowing the ID of the neck to vary from just about right to way too small, depending on the thickness of the brass. I simply couldn't get more than the odd rare case as small as 0.218" to begin with. I can and do trim my 223 brass after sizing and before expanding, using an unmodified Lee trimmer, is how I know this.
 
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OK, your case trimmer pilot is .218, mine comes up around .219 as I mentioned. Have you measured the expander ball diameter? I would take the die apart and measure the expander ball diameter and see what that diameter is. I measured 3 expander balls on three sets of RCBS dies (Post #6) and they all came up the same, that being .222. All cases I have run through all of these dies have no problem running over the .218 pilot in the trimmer.

I just saw where you did all that:

RCBS AR "new set" .218" ( one I used that created problem )
Click to expand...

RCBS should just have sent you new guts for the sizing die. That isn't right and they are normally real good about stuff like that.

Ron
 
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I was very nice while talking to this guy, have been in the service business for 40 years.

I also sent an email, we will see what happens.
 
Call RCBS back and ask them to send you a new expander ball for your AR die. Let them know your original expander ball is .218" and is too small. They usually send parts out free to the consumer. I've had them send me free replacement parts a few times.
 
CS has almost always been good with RCBS for me, with one exception a few years back. Every now and then we get someone who just isn't having a good day I guess, sounds like we may have found that one person having a bad day. But still though, bad CS from RCBS is rare, not that this helps your situation, but maybe another call might result in a better experience, that being helpful and informative.

GS
 
Friday I will call and ask if they can send me a couple expanders for my dies. Haven't heard back yet on the email I sent them.
 
Got an email back from RCBS tech dept' and they are sending out 2 new expanders and extra pins.

Also going to send me a replacement for my bad #10 shell holder.

Phil
 
Got the replacement expanders from RCBS today and both of them measure .223 as they should. They also included 5 extra pins in the package.
 
PhilMc said:
Ron, I'm also in Cleveland, OH

you ever go to the Grand River state range in Trumbell county?
Click to expand...
Nope but per the PM I'll have top give it a try. Thanks by the way. Have my brother in town next weekend but then I believe I don't have anything going so I'll check it out.

Glad RCBS came through, they generally do.

Ron
 
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