22lr for home defence.

[Marlin 45 carbine]

let me tell ya a .22LR HV into a nose, eye or adam's apple is gonna stop the shootee. much less 4-5 quick ones into the bread basket. I don't know, I can't count the deer I've taken with one loaded with Standard Velocity ( for noise concerns - useing depredation permits) all but one were one shot drops. the exception took 2 it was thrashing and kicking and squalling and this was in a housing development of homes and condos with kids looking out the windows and I had to end it fast so in the ear with another. the first shot the deer moved it's head just as I squeezed the bang switch and the slug went just below the eyes.
practice with a good reliable repeater a pump, lever or semi-auto is likely best and use MiniMags, SuperX or some such quality ammo.
I've given likely near 500 or more pounds of venison to the local charity kitchen. helped them de-bone it too. makes very good stew meat seasoned with garlic/herb floured, browned then gravyed and simmerred I usually keep the backstrap/loin and sometimes a ham for me and family/friends.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Bad Aim Billy: Wow. And coming from a "mod", just wow.

Mods are not allowed to post in threads? His advice is spot on, except he missed the point about the OP being in Peru so, perhaps shotguns are prohibited. A .22 is a terrible defense gun, but maybe it really is all he can own?

I wish he'd return and tell us what firearms are legal there.

 

[22-rimfire]

I am not advocating the use of the 22LR as a self defense caliber in either a handgun or rifle. But, it is one heck of a lot better than any pointy stick I might have. I can't imagine the effect of 4 or 6 rounds of 22LR HP in quick succession to the upper torso and and head. Call it double tap X-3. The doctors would be quite busy trying to save someone with that many hits.

In selecting a caliber for a defensive firearm, perhaps then, it is best to go with what defensive trainers recommend. People like Louis Awerbuck, Clint Smith, Pat Rogers, Larry Vickers, etc. would suggest. I doubt you'd find them suggesting the .22 LR as a wise choice for a defensive gun.

I have zero disagreement with you on this. Few here are recommending a 22LR for self defense. I however would not feel undergunned if I encountered a bad guy who wanted to do me harm especially with a quick shooting, quick pointing rifle such as a 10/22. Shoot and scoot.

 

[FSJeeper]

I believe the OP already knows that the .22 is not anywhere near an optimum SD cartridge.

I think his question was how much more powerful would the .22 lr be shot through a carbine length barrel versus a short pistol barrel.

The answer is around 200fps faster with a cooresponding increase in energy fired through the rifle versus the pistol. Bottomline, a little more lethal.

If the .22 is all he can own, then that is what he has to use.

If he has a choice of SD weapons, arguements start with the 12 ga shotgun and working our way through.................

 

[LibShooter]

First, I've never been involved in any kind of home defense shooting, and l probably never will...

Second, I'm not a pathologist, EMT or LEO with any experience with real live dead people...

Third, I have several .22s but choose to keep an M1 Carbine, a .45 pistol and a 12 gauge shotgun for home defense (I'm a belt, suspenders AND elastic waistband kind of guy)...

Having said all that, you will never convince me that 10 to 25 .22 inch holes poked into the soft a gooey parts of a bad guy will fail to change his mind about breaking and entering.

Will they drop a predator in his tracks? Probably not, but that's not the point.

 

[black_powder_Rob]

out of a rifle it will have more punch, but like others said there are better options. FYI i keep a 22 mag for back up.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Good luck in the civil hearing explaining about those 25 holes you put in that poor unfortunate youth with your high capacity "assault rifle" in the midst of your uncontrollable rage. After all, he was just trying to steal your TV and the knife was just to jimmy your door when you went nuts with your banana clipped assault rifle. We know he was a good kid, cuz his mom and his kid sister said so, and his long string of violent felony convictions are inadmissible in court, so there was no reason to shoot him so many times with him begging and pleading for his life and praying to sweet Jesus....

There will be a civil action and one shot from your "duck gun" is a lot easier to justify to the collection of morons that seem to make up juries in civil cases, than 20 rounds from your 10/22, er, "assault rifle".

Just sayin'....

 

[MoDerN_WarRioR]

Just my .02 cents... There is a "mentally insane from War" Lady that goes to my 12 step program that i help out at that actually tried to commit suicide with a 10/22 hollow point. Lets just say it wasn't very successful. Well its good she is still alive but that doesn't say much for a .22LR for defence. This shows that even a point blank shot to the face... might not do much damage. Only thing she got from this was a scar on her cheek and a hearing aid.

A 10/22 is one of my fav. rifles to shoot for practice and for fun. My XD40 and my AR next to my bed...(ALSO for fun and practice) Those are what i count on if i ever needed to protect myself. Not my 22 under my bed.

 

[wgaynor]

I have yet to hear a believable argument against the use of the 22lr in a SD situation. I've heard alot of stories, but I've yet to see any solid evidence.

I have seen the effect of the 22lr in my own personal enjoyment of shooting things. Not just squirrels, but things. I love to shoot things...it's fun. My 22lr eats up cinder blocks really well (i was just curious), puts pretty good dents in propane tanks out to 125 yards, shoots through drywall easily, same thing with sheet metal, and even car door. Are you noticing the trend...other than the squirrel, everything else is harder than skin and tissue... yes a .22lr will kill, has killed, and will continue to kill.

I can google many stories of people surviving being shot by a 22lr, but I can just as easily google stories of people surviving shots by 9mm, 38special, and 44 magnum.

Also, I for one have learned a great lesson in life. I rarely believe what I read on the internet. I again implore the OP to take his 22lr to the range/farm/field or wherever and shoot stuff. Have fun with it, and then study your data. As for us giving our opinion on here, remember that it's just an opinion. Opinions are not what you want to base your safety and security on.

 

[shephard19]

I think a semi-auto .22 LR carbine is plenty to stop most realistic threats.
I think its reasonable to assume that most people would be able to get off 3-6shots COM before the attacker closes with you if that doesn't stop them you will have a huge advantage in a hand to hand combat situation and I think 3-6 shots of .22 LR would stop most people dead in their tracks anyway. The lack of power compared to other rounds becomes a problem mainly in a gun fight they might have a decent period of time to get a shot off at you even after you've shot them, but the vast majority of home invasions don't result in gun fights. Remember most criminals arn't interested in getting in a gun fight they just wan't your money usually they will retreat after they are aware that you are armed. The ones interested in getting in a gun fight with you usually have a personal hatred of you or you are a rival criminal yourself who has to be eliminated.

So to recap:

.22 LR is plenty if your attacker is not armed with a firearm

.22 LR is somewhat lacking in a gun fight but may be enough anyway

 

[C-grunt]

You cant take a few anecdotal incidents about a .22 failing to seriously injure somebody and state that its obviously a bad idea. Because I could say the same thing about the .45 ACP.

I have a work friend who has been in two shootings with his .45. Both suspects were shot several times in the torso, not necessarily good COM shot, and at least once in the head. In both cases the head shots riccochetted off of the skull and did little damage. Both of these guys lived.

One of our recent officer involved shootings had the suspect take a .45 ACP through the side and it completely penetrated his body through the chest. Not only did they have to chase him down afterwards mbut had to fist fight the guy to arrest him. That guy nearly died and was in crtitical condition for a couple weeks after.

So in my experience is the .22lr more effective than the .45ACP? I know more failures to immediately stop a person with a .45 than with the .22.

The answer is of course not. You cant take a few instances where something has worked or hasnt worked and make a broad statement about it merits.

You have to judge it based on the known facts. The fact is that a .22 out of a rifle will put a hole nearly a quarter in wide probably nearly completely through your chest. That is seriously detrimental to your health. If you add several holes and those holes intersect your heart, lungs, liver, spine or brain, you will probably die shortly after.

OP if you are able, by all means choose a more effective home defense weapon that a .22. But if a .22 is all you got, train with the thing, feed it good ammo and know that if you do your part, it will do its part.

 

[natman]

Yes, I know this isn't a good defensive round in a handgun, but I just wondered how it would perform at close range (say ten yards) from a rifle barrel.

Would the improved velocity make much difference, or would the round be equally anaemic from a carbine.

My 22s are both bolt action, but I found myself thinking about how effective three or four body shots from a Marlin or Ruger semi-auto would be at very close range.

Yes, a 22LR shot from a rifle is more powerful than the same round from a pistol. But it's still not powerful enough.

The only circumstances that justify shooting a human being are if you are in imminent danger. If that's the case, you need to make your attacker stop RIGHT NOW. A wound that proves fatal in a couple of days from infection doesn't cut it. A wound that incapacitates in 20 minutes doesn't cut it. What you need is a wound that incapacitates the attacker NOW.

Is it possible to inflict such a wound with a 22 rifle? Yes.

Is it probable that you will? Not really, far less so than with more suitable rounds.

Is it possible that other rounds, especially hand gun rounds, could have the same problem? Yes, but not as likely.

If you are going to use a long arm for defense, you can get a new 12ga pump for well under $250. You can get a good used 12 ga pump for under $150. Your life should be worth nothing less.

 

[Jason_W]

This is an interesting chart that I'm sure has been posted here before.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm

Keep in mind that the data applies to handguns and not rifles or carbines.

Putting the .22 LR for defense thing aside for a moment, what I find interesting is AIT in goats figure. Even for some of the tried and true defensive cartridges, it's taking 7 to 30 seconds for the animal to collapse. I've never been in one myself (thankfully) but I imagine that in a gunfight, a lot can happen in a few seconds. Admittedly, from most cases I've read about, the human cognitive reaction to being shot can play a role. Of course, that in and of itself is an X factor.

 

[Art Eatman]

Okay, so we're pretty much agreed that the .22 is a poor CHOICE for self-defense. But that is not the issue; not the point of the thread. We're pretty much in agreement that a rifle would be more effective than the shorter-barrelled handgun.

You use what you have. That gets into the realm of ammo choice and tactics.

Tactics? As many hits as possible seems to me to be the first priority. The OP seems to be limited to bolt guns, at least at this point in time. It seems obvious to me that a semi-auto would be more effective. Ammo? Some sort of high-speed hollow points, SFAIK. But if all that's available is standard speed loads, that's what you use.

One point brought out earlier in the thread is not to shoot once, then stop and look to see the result. IMO, keep shooting until the threat is obviously ended.