.22lr killing ability taken too lightly?

[Random 8]

When I used to trap, I probably killed 200 coyotes with a .22 subsonic HP lead bullet fired from a Ruger 22/45. Another 6 or so targets of opportunity with CCI stingers from the same pistol that weren't in a trap. Those were generally on the run and at distance. That's on top of countless raccoon, skunk, and fox. Never had to shoot one twice in a trap. I've shot hundreds of raccoon with a rifle and sometimes the 22/45 as far as the tallest cottonwood in the river bottoms. Used a HV hollow point for most of those. They usually came down stone dead. The 22 will penetrate well, and if you hit CNS or have time to let the critters die, it will kill!

 

[nettlle]

I have trapped also, I have killed many a fox, coon, coyote and muskrat with a sharp blow to the base of the skull either with pliers or a heavy stick. Bullet holes in the pelts certainly isn't value added. Rarely did I need to shoot a trapped animal because I preferred not to.

 

[Csinn]

When I was a kid, I’m 67, the 22 was legal for deer hunting in Michigan. My dad and grandpa used them and piled up a lot of venison. Neck shots dropped them in their tracks

We used them as cleanup guns during deer season. A few times the 270 or 3030 wouldn’t kill with one shot and wound then so those of us on clean up would follow up with .22 from 15-30 ft to the head and 1 shot was always enough.

 

[someguy2800]

I doubt poachers are experts on humane kills. Or experts on anything else for that matter.

To the contrary I bet many of them kill far more head of game than us law abiding ever will, and are smart enough not to get caught.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Israel uses integrally suppressed Ruger 10/22s for "less lethal" clashes with Palestinians when rubber bullets and tear gas don't work. They allegedly shoot at arms and legs but have killed several.

 

[WestKentucky]

I have seen a lot done in drunken fun. Guys I used to run around with would occasionally get the hair to get all tanked up and go get a deer. Usually with a 22 using a suppressor made of pvc pipe and bathtub stoppers. It works. Usually isn’t pretty, but it works. There comes a time where fun and games aren’t enjoyable anymore, so I haven’t seen or hung around with those guys for about 15 years. I could probably find them easy enough. Still on the same barstools as they used to be most nights. As was stated earlier, 22lr is the choice of most poachers for a reason. Effective and cheap. Quiet enough to not raise much of a fuss.

 

[trekker73]

Agree with the OP. people understimate it. Not making it out to be a go-to hunting or SD round but I find velocitors and stingers work well on 20-30lb animals bodies. Headshots can work on larger stuff with good enough setup.

Also its still [potentially lethal to way out. I showed some of the vids below to my brother who is a cop, and his buddies, lesson being you dont want to get hit with a stray 22 at any range



22LR slaughtering cattle (1) Cattle shot with a .22LR - YouTube
22LR penetrating 10 layers of dry walI (1) How many pieces of drywall will a 22lr go through? - YouTube
22LR beating 1/2" pine board at 300 yards( the armies lethality test) (1) How far will a .22 LR Kill? - YouTube
22LR penetrating 10" ballistics gel at 300 yards (1) .22lr Lethality Revisited - 300 Yard Ballistics Test - Clear Ballistics - YouTube

 

[crestoncowboy]

I know 2 people shot in the head with 22 that didn't die. No splintering or anything. The bullet tunneled around the brain rather than in. One was from less than 2 feet.

It can kill. But it is far more likely to fail than 9mm or anything like that

 

[starnbar]

While I was on the job we took a call bar shooting got there the victim was sitting at a table with an apparent head wound he had been seated when the assailant walked up in back of him shooting him in a downward angle with a 22 caliber revolver the projectile entered the side of his skull and traversed down into his upper neck the victim refused medical treatment and after filing his statement with NTA he went to his residence.

 

[DeepSouth]

I know 2 people shot in the head with 22 that didn't die. No splintering or anything. The bullet tunneled around the brain rather than in. One was from less than 2 feet.

A coworker of mine was a juror in a murder trial where a victim was shot in the head from the side. The bullet hit near the temple went down under his jaw rounded the corner and exited the cheek on the other side of his head. I was told the exit would scar looked gnarly…

It was a 7.62x39 fired from an AK.

I knew a guy in my youth that had a 9mm wrap his head, to be fair it did go through a windshield first.

Point is it can happen with nearly anything. I would agree it’s probably more likely with a 22, but I admit I certainly could be wrong.

 

[trekker73]

I know 2 people shot in the head with 22 that didn't die. No splintering or anything. The bullet tunneled around the brain rather than in. One was from less than 2 feet.

It can kill. But it is far more likely to fail than 9mm or anything like that

A fella in Australia recently was involved in a motorcycle gang fight. Thought he took a knock to the head as he had a bleeding lump on his scalp. Went to his doctor after a few days as it was still bothering him and Xray showed a 38 special bullet lodged in the skull. Stuff happens.

 

[crestoncowboy]

A coworker of mine was a juror in a murder trial where a victim was shot in the head from the side. The bullet hit near the temple went down under his jaw rounded the corner and exited the cheek on the other side of his head. I was told the exit would scar looked gnarly…

It was a 7.62x39 fired from an AK.

I knew a guy in my youth that had a 9mm wrap his head, to be fair it did go through a windshield first.

Point is it can happen with nearly anything. I would agree it’s probably more likely with a 22, but I admit I certainly could be wrong.

No doubt. And my grandpa died via 22 wrf to the head. So it certainly can.

I had a neighbor who was a security guard or armored car or something of the sort (certainly not leo... lol) and was shot and the suspect shot down on him in his Forehead to finish him off. Was a 38 special and he lived. No issues. He almost died from a brown recluse bite years later. He always joked he survived being stabbed in a lung and shot in the head with a 38... only to die from a spider bite.

I just feel like 22 or 25 have less chance. I'm sure somewhere, somebody died via red rider bb gun. Just far less likely to kill though

 

[jmorris]

I know it’s a small round and not that powerful and there are much better cartridges, but I believe the .22lr is taken lightly for it’s ability to kill.

It can most certainly kill, I have killed hundreds of pigs with the .22 LR because it’s perfectly adequate while they are standing there in the trap. There is no rush, they can’t stay standing behind that tree forever…



My furthest is this one shot stop with a 40 grain standard velocity solid.



Didn’t take a step.



However, the fact I know it can kill also doesn’t fool me into thinking it’s the best thing to use, it’s much closer to the minimum end of the spectrum. Just above pellet and BB guns that can also kill things.

 

[LimaCharlie]

A 22 may kill something, but my Weatherby 460 Magnum rifle is quicker.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I read an interview with a doctor who worked the ER in a busy hospital in a violent urban center.
He stated that .22s fragment badly in a body and cause wounds silimiar to HE shrapnel- very difficult to find all the pieces or repair the damage- so the victims tend to die later rather than than sooner.

I would find another surgeon as what he says doesn't jive with reality. Does any of that make sense that a relatively low velocity small projectile would cause HE-like wounds. Did he explain the mechanism by such a tiny, underpowered round exhibited such remarkable capabilities? Did he also talk about how .22 lr inside a head will just ping pong back and forth off the insides of the cranium until the brain is soup? That is something I have heard several times in the past also purportedly from surgeons lamenting how the .22 lr is so much more deadly than other calibers.

There is NOTHING about a .22 that causes it to fragment badly in the body unless you have frangible round or that it hits bone, particularly heavy bone, but that goes for just about any bullet, right?

Check out...
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2688536
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/03/27/upshot/deadly-bullets-guns.html (summary article)
...where .22 and .25 weren't nearly as lethal as the non-High Explosive rounds being fired like 9mm and .45 acp.

He really said .22 lr wounds look like HE wounds? Had he ever seen an HE wound?

I am sure .22 lr fragments are hard to find just like with other bullets fragment. That is why they have X-rays and when the fragments are really tiny or difficult to remove, sometimes some get left behind, regardless of caliber.

Whenever I read medical journal info on ballistic wounds, I never seem to find any mention of the HE nature of .22 lr wounds. I wonder why that is?

There is nothing magical about .22 lr expect some people's opinions of it. It may be underrated by some, but it is definitely overrated by others.

ANY PROJECTILE THAT HAS THE CAPABILITY TO PENETRATE SOFT TISSUE IS DANGEROUS AND COULD BE DEADLY. THOSE THAT PENETRATE MORE THAN A JUST A FEW INCHES CERTAINLY MAY BE DEADLY, BE IT A BB GUN OR .50 BMG. A lucky hit on a near surface major blood vessel can result in death with a fairly minor injury. The issue of death isn't so much a caliber issue, but a biological one. The link between caliber and lethality is tissue damage. By and large, .22 lr tend to produce less tissue damage than larger calibers (.25 acp being a possible exception).

 

[3Crows]

The IDF has deployed the 1022 as a non-lethal or less than lethal weapon. Unfortunately it tended to be more lethal than less.

 

[ms6852]

I worked at a level one trauma center for 38 years. And saw many things that just did not make sense. I've seen a 100 pound woman survive 6 shots to the face and head from a .357 magnum and so many more die from a single shot with a 22, and not necessarily a head shot. There are claims and personally I do not know for sure but I seem to remember that the number of deaths that occur from a 22 was higher, not because it was the caliber of choice chosen, but because this caliber was more readily available and many that were shot, were shot by accident or self inflicted. In the end, when it is time to go, it is not the caliber that makes the difference, but the good Lord, GOD that decides.

 

[Varminterror]

I would find another surgeon as what he says doesn't jive with reality.

I fully agree with this.

I’ve pulled hundreds of 22LR slugs from various animals, from coons to coyotes to cattle, and have never found significant fragmentation with any kind of spreading wound tracts from the fragments. Yes, the noses of HP’s smear off, but they’re strung along the primary wound tract, not splintering off into their own independent tracts like we see from fragmenting bullets in high power centerfire rounds.

As cool as we like to think we are as humans, flesh is flesh, and bone is bone, and there’s nothing special about human bodies which would cause a 22LR bullet to do anything differently than it does in other animals.

So 100% BS, urban legend, internet lore on that line about extreme fragmentation of 22LR’s in humans.

 

[kerreckt]

Friend of mine worked at the local ER. He told me a person came in that had been shot in the forehead with a 45acp. Badly fractured skull but did not penetrate (talk about lucky or a thick skull). He lived. He also told me of multiple people that had been shot in the head with 22LR that died because a bullet passed through or lodged their brain. Moral of the story is that penetration wins. 22LR penetrate.

 

[Varminterror]

Given:

1) There exists a relatively close range threshold beyond which common wind measurement/estimation accuracy is insufficient to pick which side of a target a bullet might fall - literally +/-1-2mph estimate error means two consecutive bullets might fall on opposite sides of the target.

2) The wind blows about 100 days per year here in KS above that threshold where wind drift becomes unreliable or unmanageable with a 22LR.

So if we’re playing a thought experiment of “how far is 22LR reliably deadly,” with those given realities in mind, I’m pretty confident in the idea that within 300yrds, if I needed to end the life of an assailant, recovery notwithstanding, my odds with a 22LR would be exceptionally high, nearing 100%. Death might not come quickly, but the first connecting shot would either be sufficiently detrimental to end the engagement, or to enable improved performance upon re-engagement. Whether that means they drop dead where they stood, limp away to die later, or they stagger just long enough for me to send follow up shots and continue to slow and ultimately stop their approach, or they wither sufficiently for me to approach and administer a follow up, 300yrds is a very attainable effective range where delivering on center mass is sufficiently reliably and the performance of the bullet is sufficiently potent to purposefully deliver sufficient damage on target to achieve the necessary outcome. 400-500 might be reasonable on ~1/3-1/2 of days, but 300 is attainable on almost any day. Not just suppressing fire to discourage approach, but effective fire with ability to physically end the assault.

 

[Coyote3855]

Did I see lots of farm animals killed for slaughter with .22? Absolutely. Have I used a .22 to take a metric ton of small game and varmints up to prairie dog size? Yup.

Not many things pain me more that seen an animal run off because someone chose to use an inadequate caliber or wasn't skilled enough to make an accurate shot.

Whether for hunting, eliminating varmints, or for self defense, I would much rather be over gunned than under.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Friend of mine worked at the local ER. He told me a person came in that had been shot in the forehead with a 45acp. Badly fractured skull but did not penetrate (talk about lucky or a thick skull). He lived. He also told me of multiple people that had been shot in the head with 22LR that died because a bullet passed through or lodged their brain. Moral of the story is that penetration wins. 22LR penetrate.

Obviously, .45 acp is incapable of penetrating human skulls, but .22 lr will penetrate the human skull and kill.
More garbage science? You are taking a singular anecdote and applying it universally. You have no knowledge of the distances fired, angles of (attempted) penetration, etc. You have only one undocumented data point compared to other undocumented data points, LOL.

However, I will trump your singularly undocumented case with a singular documented case where a .22 lr failed to penetrate the skull, failed to immobilize or stop the person for 5 years, and failed to kill.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...otices-five-years-later-idUSTRE67N3XL20100824

This guy tried to commit suicide with a .22 lr and while he was hospitalized, he was well enough a few weeks later to be arrested and booked into jail. https://katu.com/news/local/police-...ckBfrgiLDFc0u7KQaH2gZRcoH5XTBkYU5ELSQGOp_YQQM

Now, this guy was shot between the fricking eyes and the bullet did penetrate, yet did not kill. I guess it didn't do a lot of bouncing around or acted like a high explosive because I am pretty sure a high explosive going off inside somebody's head would very much more than likely be fatal. Go figure.
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/r...e/news-story/b60fd90f7fd01d16c463704b47dc87bc

 

[.308 Norma]

all I ever hear is “it’s only good for plinking and can’t really kill anything”.

You must run in entirely different circles than I ever have. I've been around guns, hunting and shooting my whole life (74 years) and I've never heard that.
As a matter of fact, Dad and Mom taught me to never point a "gun" at anything I didn't want to kill, and a .22 is a "gun" - like the .22 they gave me for my 10th birthday.

 

[Speedo66]

Many many years ago one of our guys was off duty and a neighbor in the Harlem neighborhood he lived in told him he'd been robbed. They found the guy and he was making the arrest when the mutt wheeled around and shot him once with a .22.

He emptied his 5 shot .38Spl. into him, hit him with every one. Guess who died and who survived?

I went to the officers funeral...

 

[Csinn]

You must run in entirely different circles than I ever have. I've been around guns, hunting and shooting my whole life (74 years) and I've never heard that.
As a matter of fact, Dad and Mom taught me to never point a "gun" at anything I didn't want to kill, and a .22 is a "gun" - like the .22 they gave me for my 10th birthday.

Yea my parents had the same rule. It’s most online gun reviews I read and my “toughest” friends. Funny though none of them would ever volunteer to get shot by a .22 I’d wager.