.22lr MEGATHREAD

[thirty-ought-six]

Buying what you need, and buying what you want are two different things.

No one "needs" 22 ammo, when other calibers do the trick, but people "want" 22 ammo because it [used to be] cheap and plentiful.

I spent over a week researching the supposed shortage of 22 ammo, separating a lot of BS from the truth.


In times of crisis and real shortages, often people lacking scruples take advantage of those in a panic, a good point of when some gas stations in my area raised gas prices to FOUR DOLLARS A GALLON when 9/11 happened.

The 22 shortage is not an actual shortage, it's an availability issue caused by several factors.

You and every other shooter are subject to this issue because other people are limiting your availability of purchasing the ammo, despite the fact production is at an all time high.

These groups are as follows..

1. Preppers, who have stockpiles of well over 100,000 rounds of 22.


2. People who solicit the use of "straw buyers", such as friends and family members, to get around the 1-3 box a day limits most stores have.

3. Scalpers, who line up at 4 in the morning to buy what little ammo stores have, and turn around and sell it on gunbroker, gun shows, flea markets, and facebook groups at 1.5-4 x what they paid for it.

4. Online stores who are bidding more per round than sporting good stores to charge a higher price.


So despite the fact that production is at an all time high, these factors make for an availability issue, not a shortage.


The biggest of them all are the scalpers. Look at gunbroker..

There are over THIRTY PAGES of 22lr for sale, at inflated prices, which people are more than happy to buy.

Where and how do people get this ammo? By lining up at 4 in the morning to buy it.

If people are more than happy to overpay, then the scalpers just keep buying it.

The bottom line? You are left without the option to buy ammo at normal prices.


Everyone should restrain themselves from buying it, scalpers would go broke, these "overnight ammo sellers" would go out of business, and you would see ammo on the shelves again at normal prices.

Continuing the pay overinflated prices will keep the scalpers in business.

This could drag on for 5 years.


Any con-man could be a millionaire in a week buy doing 3 things.

1. Creating a panic.
2. Buying up the supply.
3. Charging double for it.


That's exactly the issue. By overpaying your doing nothing to help the "shortage" and are lining the wallets of the scalpers.

 

[Lman57]

There is a Bass Pro Shops about 40 miles from me the Rancho Cucamonga, CA store very nice store and they have a great restaurant. There prices are a little higher than my favorite gun shops. I like to order power from them and pick up at there store and avoid that has-mat fee when I can not find it local.

 

[thirty-ought-six]

I think the greatest way to end the "shortage" would be for all stores to sell 22 at $50 a brick.

All the "scalpers" would have no incentive to buy, the "Straw buyers" would not be stocking up.

Once the price goes up, demand would go down and supply would increase at the store level.

Then slowly lower the price back down to $20 a brick.

 

[redneck2]

There is no justification in paying a higher price, other than stupidity

You don't have to pay ridiculous prices, but if you think you're gonna buy it at 1970's prices is gonna wait a long time.

Like forever.

Higher quality stuff is gonna be around 8-10 cents now most of the time. I got a 325 pack of Federal for $26. Maybe it's stupid, but I can go in my back yard and shoot.

 

[CraigC]

No one "needs" 22 ammo, when other calibers do the trick, but people "want" 22 ammo because it [used to be] cheap and plentiful.

Pure nonsense. Cheap is not the only thing the .22LR has going for it and I'd love to know what other readily available cartridge is better for small game. Shooters have a "need" to maintain their skills, shoot for fun, shoot for competition and hunting for small game. Big difference between those with "needs" and those who are just buying it because they're either hoarding or are afraid they won't be able to get any more.

In times of crisis and real shortages, often people lacking scruples take advantage of those in a panic, a good point of when some gas stations in my area raised gas prices to FOUR DOLLARS A GALLON when 9/11 happened.

BS again. At times of crisis, people panic and do stupid things. Like fill every container they own with gasoline. When prices are left as they were, the hoarders get it all. Others are left without. This nonsense about "price-gouging" is perpetuated by the liberal media and swallowed up by those who don't know any better. In fact, "price gouging" discourages the hoarders and those with a real need suck it up and pay the price. If all the ammo retailers jacked their prices up like everybody else is, the hoarders and gougers wouldn't make any money and the problem would eventually go away. Of course, the problem will also go away if people stop hoarding and stop buying all they can just because they can. People like me who consume a lot of .22LR ammo will actually be able to buy it.

 

[PapaG]

Ain't no way I'd classify our Bass Pro as cheap in any category. Shot at over $51/bag, primers at $60. Ammo priced commensurately. Cheap?

 

[Warp]

I would not pay $25 for a brick of Golden junk.

But that's just me and I had more than enough .22lr before availability tanked.

 

[Warp]

No one "needs" 22 ammo, when other calibers do the trick, but people "want" 22 ammo because it [used to be] cheap and plentiful.

I spent over a week researching the supposed shortage of 22 ammo, separating a lot of BS from the truth.

I can appreciate that, as a [seemingly] brand new gun owner who just bought his first .22lr a week ago, you are annoyed at the lack of .22lr availability.

But I also feel the need to tell you that you are in over your head here and may want to do more reading and less proclaiming.

For example, .22lr has a lot going for it other than just price. That is a big factor sure, but it isn't everything.

There is no justification in paying a higher price, other than stupidity.

Incorrect.

And generically calling other people stupid isn't very High Road.

1. When people felt there was going to be civil unrest and a major gun grab, they cleaned the stores out of ammo; 22 is cheap so it was cleaned out en masse.

It is also extremely popular. The vast majority of shooters have at least one .22lr.

We also seem to have an influx of new shooters, who are (rightly) recommended a .22lr for at least one of their initial purchases.

We also have a recent (and major) uptick in the popularity and availability of semi automatic .22lr that one can use to burn through ammo at ridiculous speed (S&W M&P 15-22 for example).

2. The shortage thus began when manufacturing levels could not keep up with the almost instant large demand.

No argument there...demand leaped.

3. When demand ramped up, so did production

As much as they could, anyway. The production lines are a major investment ESPECIALLY for .22lr, so running them 24/7 (if they weren't already) may be all that could be done for a likely-temporary (albeit huge) demand increase.

4. However once the dust settled, it's not a shortage issue, it's an availability issue.

That's just another way of saying shortage.

There is no true "Shortage" of 22, in fact factories in the US churn out millions of rounds PER DAY.

That doesn't mean there isn't a shortage. If demand outstrips supply, there is a shortage.

So government buy-ups of other calibers in the millions does NOT affect 22, despite what some people proclaim.

Not directly, no.

The issue with 22 are people buying it, and re-selling it.

Re-selling it is not an issue. At all. Not when it comes to "is there a shortage or not". The ammo is still being manufactured and then finding its way into the hands of end-users. There is jut an extra middle-man.

Since 22 is still pretty scarce, people have no choice but to pay double, triple, even quadruple "normal prices" for bricks of 22.

Shop more carefully and patiently.

I've purchased thousands of rounds of .22lr in the last six months and I didn't pay more than maybe 15% above 2012 prices. This was done with AIM surplus, Cabela's, Midway USA, and Grafs.

And that's not to mention the case I got from the CMP in 2013.

So it all boils down to greed, people are buying the ammo with no other intention that to sell it at a higher price.

That's business. If you want to stop that from happening then tell one of the other middle men, like the big chain retailer, to charge more, so there isn't enough room for sufficient profit from somebody else taking the middle-man role.

Or just accept the fact that you are paying that extra middle-man to perform a service. A service you either lack the time, willpower, or knowledge to perform. After all, if THEY can get all that .22lr at a good price, why can't you? Either you can but choose not to, or they are able to do something you can't, for which you pay them.

If people stopped, used common sense, and did not pay these inflated prices, I can guarantee you the price would fall back to "normal" levels.

Well, yeah, if demand dropped then prices would drop. But if almost everybody in the country is willing and able to pay "new" prices, guess what, that is the market value

The more support people give by being idiotic and paying inflated prices, the longer this "shortage" will last.

For some people shooting is better than not shooting, and taking their son/daughter/nephew/etc to an Appleseed is better than not taking them. So they buy the .22lr they can. Please don't call them stupid for doing so.

It would be no different if someone bought all the dollar bills in this country and started charging people two dollars for them.

Yes, because ONE PERSON is buying ALL of the millions of rounds of .22lr produced each day LOL

I cannot justify paying that much for 22, other than if I wanted to be foolish and bought it for 15 cents a round.

Then don't.

Once people put their thinking cap on and think "gee, maybe overpaying is stupid after all"...

Again, there is no need to call people stupid because they put a higher value on .22lr ammo than you do.

..the prices would come down and you would start seeing it on the shelves for under $25 a brick.

That sounds kind of expensive to me, but maybe that will be the "new normal". Time will tell.

If Walmart, Gander Mountain, etc orders ammo at 3 cents a round, and "Joe Middleman" orders it at 7 cents a round, who do you think will get more shipments?

They don't get ammo for 3 cents per round.

 

[thirty-ought-six]

I never called anyone stupid, I just said it's stupid to overpay for ammo.

My 2 cents was just my opinion, not to be taken as fact.

 

[OilyPablo]

There never is 22LR in stores here. Hasn't been for a couple years now.

Bass Pro doesn't let you order .22LR online, so price is moot. Luckily I was well cached and have not had a need to fire a great deal of .22LR. I did recently buy some online when I ordered some other items.

And I'm not driving to Tacoma for .22LR.

 

[notaglockfanboy]

Originally posted by MdKgrdn {I'm sorry, but I'm an FFL and I NEVER see 22lr even at the DISTRIBUTOR level ... much less retail. All I've seen recently is something like "Buy 5 AR's and we will -let you- buy 5 bricks of 22lr (never mentions a price, and it's some off brand I've never heard of)

I for one would sure like to know where the multi-millions or rounds a day allegedly being produced have gone for the last two+ years.} I suppose all the ammo companies are lying when they say their ammo plants are producing way more than before the "ammo shortage"?? Or let me guess, it is a government conspiracy to keep citizens from getting .22lr because it is the most powerful and dangerous round on the market and they don't want people to have it so they are buying all they can get their hands on and storing it in some remote warehouse to keep it out of the hands of citizens. Come on give me a break, it is being bought by the hoarders/preppers and mall ninjas and walmart gangs to turn a profit online. I am in western KY and have been seeing it back on shelves occasionally and it is getting better.

 

[OilyPablo]

One of these days the market will fall is what I have been saying........not sure when is the big question.

 

[Warp]

I never called anyone stupid, I just said it's stupid to overpay for ammo.

My 2 cents was just my opinion, not to be taken as fact.

And as I pointed out, it is sometimes better to shoot than not to shoot, and there is nothing stupid about that.

The $ value you personally place on ammo, for you, will not necessarily be the same as the next person.

 

[thirty-ought-six]

And as I pointed out, it is sometimes better to shoot than not to shoot, and there is nothing stupid about that.

Agreed. Right now I'm having a blast just shooting my Ruger Air rifle.

 

[jrdolall]

It's a shortage when I can't walk in Walmart and buy all I want at the price I want to pay for it.
I bought 6 bricks of 22 ammo in December of 2012, right after SH, and that got me enough to carry me for a while on top of what I already had. Since then I have probably bought 40k rounds of various 22 ammo and EVERY SINGLE ROUND has come from online stores at "reasonable" prices. No I haven't bought any for $14.99/500 but I also have not paid $30/500 even factoring in shipping. I got in 6 boxes of Federal bulk THIS WEEK from Midway along with some other stuff to smooth out the freight charges.
If you are paying $50 for a brick then you aren't trying very hard. Midway, Cabela's Academy and many other big box names have filled my shelf with 22 ammo. I have given away 1,000's of rounds to people that were out and I haven't sold/scalped a single round. I have Golden, Thunderduds, Federal, Aguila, Mini-Mags and several other flavors. Heck I even found 10 boxes of Stingers a couple of weeks ago thanks to a THR member that pointed me to a source. Burning through a brick of 22 is too easy. It takes way longer to load the magazines than it does to shoot 500 rounds. Put about 5 kids on the line with semis and you will be amazed how fast it disappears.
Go to Wikiarms.com and set up notifications but be ready to buy it RIGHT THEN. You can't think about it or check the balance in your checking account or it will be gone. Often it is gone before you can even click the purchase button but it's out there. It's available. It's affordable. It ain't always easy.

 

[PabloJ]

That is not expensive considering modern times. I do not own .22 rimfire weapon and never will. To me current .22lr ammo situation is continued source of funny amusement. I refer to .22 ammo shoppers as gophers or chipmunks collecting "nuts and seeds" and nuts for their "food stash".

 

[nipprdog]

The biggest of them all are the scalpers. Look at gunbroker..

There are over THIRTY PAGES of 22lr for sale, at inflated prices, which people are more than happy to buy.

Almost all of them have zero bids.

 

[ford8nr]

I work part time at the local Cabela's, since Dec. 19 of last year, we haven't had ANY .22's come in !

I find that hard to believe since in the last 6 months EVERYTIME I went into my local Cabelas they've had at least one sometime up to 3 brands on the shelf AND it been available on their web site.

 

[Willie Sutton]

"It's a shortage when I can't walk in Walmart and buy all I want at the price I want to pay for it"


There's a terrible shortage of Porsche 911's then. Every time I go to the dealer they have a few, but not at a price I want to pay for one. Terrible law of supply and demand and all: It's an outrage, I say.


Willie

.

 

[Johnny_B_Goode]

I have plenty of 22LR ammo. There was a good bit of 22 ammo available between memorial day and black friday. Now I am trying to stock up on 22 mag. I have been watching the auctions. For high quality 22mag ammo people will pay $150 plus $15 for 500 rounds. 22mag ammo never has been cheap. Winchester super x in the paper box was $8 at walmart before the shortage. Remington and CCI have always demanded a premium price, especially for the pistol ammo with the fast burning powder.

 

[OilyPablo]

I find that hard to believe since in the last 6 months EVERYTIME I went into my local Cabelas they've had at least one sometime up to 3 brands on the shelf AND it been available on their web site.

Nope - here .22LR is NEVER at Walmart or other stores as well. Distributors/Stores basically made a decision that the supply lines aren't going to reach this far west. It sucks, and it may be hard to believe but you are welcome to come and look for yourself.

 

[Lman57]

There are two super Walmart's near by you pickup at the stores but you have to be there when the trucks unload I always pick it up.

 

[Reloadron]

I work part time at the local Cabela's, since Dec. 19 of last year, we haven't had ANY .22's come in ! There are folks waiting at the door when the place opens, it looks like the Oklahoma land rush when they do. Our bosses said they have ordered the stuff, but the trucks never have any onboard. ??? knows why we can't get any.

Well I can't speak for the hills west of Denver but I can speak for the flat land above Columbus, Ohio. Just after New Year I was down there and the Cabela's had the Remington 525 round brass plated #1622C Hollow Points at about $25. Guessing maybe 30 boxes hit the shelf. They were there at 9 AM when I walked past. I went past again at around 10 AM as I was leaving and they were gone. I have seen assorted 22 LR in that store on several occasions but I don't get down there very often. I have also noticed if I look at Cabela's online every now and then, like most retailers, they have some 22 LR in stock.

I have also seen some turn up at the local Walmart (Bedford, Ohio) and the Local Gander Mountain (Twinsburgh, Ohio). Just a matter of hitting it or catching it right.

Something else that needs considered when moaning about the cost. People who state "It was $50 a brick" and fail to state what was $50 a brick, in my opinion are idiots. Yeah, $50 a brick for Remington Thunderbolts is way over priced but $50 a brick for some Eley and other target 22 LR may be a normal price. Regardless, nobody is twisting anyone's arm to buy this stuff. Anyone with a God given brain can figure out which retailers, especially online, has been screwing them.

Ron

 

[jrdolall]

There's a terrible shortage of Porsche 911's then.

Yep, and pretty much everything else in the world. It seems everything costs more than I WANT to pay for it.

 

[tark]

There is a word for people who have ten times the ammo on hand they can possibly shoot up in five lifetimes. The word is Hoarding and it is a mental disorder. I have a word of my own but the moderator would remove it and slap my hand.

So here are a few I can print.

Greedy. Inconsiderate of others. Paranoid. Childish. Selfish...I could go on forever. A man can't even buy his son his first rifle and a few boxes of ammo to go along with it, in most areas. I have a couple of thousand rounds of .22 and It will take me five years to shoot that much. I don't need any more.

It is one thing to stock up ammo against a diasaster, I have two full battle loads of ammo for every centerfire rifle I own. The shortage of 22 ammo would cease overnight if paranoid, psychotic hoarders would quit trying to make their stash last SIX lifetimes