243 or 6mm
- Thread starter grubbylabs
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If ammo availability is a concern then the .243 is a good choice. I would stick with shots within 200 yards (which is most of them) but if he is an excellent shot then I would stretch it to 250yd. At 200 yards the .243 will probably do as well as any of the other cartridges.
Other 200 yard calibers that don't have a lot of recoil: 7.62x39, .30-30 (maybe best kept to 150 yards), and .35 Remington
If he can hit a 6" circle at 300 yards from hunting positions (this leaves a bit of room for error) then he might be better served by a more powerful cartridge...
.257 Roberts, .260 Rem, 7mm-08, .270 Win, 6.5x55. Of those the .270 might kick the hardest.
Other 200 yard calibers that don't have a lot of recoil: 7.62x39, .30-30 (maybe best kept to 150 yards), and .35 Remington
If he can hit a 6" circle at 300 yards from hunting positions (this leaves a bit of room for error) then he might be better served by a more powerful cartridge...
.257 Roberts, .260 Rem, 7mm-08, .270 Win, 6.5x55. Of those the .270 might kick the hardest.
Another vote for the 243. I owned a Rem 700 in 6mm and got tired of looking for ammo for it while there was 243 every place I went. Even 243 brass was cheaper. Rebarreled and never looked back.
While both 243 and 6mm are not what most people would recommend for elk and other large game, they can do the job if you understand the limitations.
If you are looking for a dedicated hunter, I would consider something a little bigger. I am a fan of the 260, and those big heavy 160gn bullets will drill right into a large animal and do the job. But as noted, it's becoming a niche round, like pretty much every other 6.5.
You might look at something like 7mm-08, which has proven to be a very flexible cartridge while still having less recoil than the '30s'.
If on the other hand you want a dual use varminter/hunter, it's pretty hard to beat the old 243.
While both 243 and 6mm are not what most people would recommend for elk and other large game, they can do the job if you understand the limitations.
If you are looking for a dedicated hunter, I would consider something a little bigger. I am a fan of the 260, and those big heavy 160gn bullets will drill right into a large animal and do the job. But as noted, it's becoming a niche round, like pretty much every other 6.5.
You might look at something like 7mm-08, which has proven to be a very flexible cartridge while still having less recoil than the '30s'.
If on the other hand you want a dual use varminter/hunter, it's pretty hard to beat the old 243.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Odds and ends: My .243 is a little Sako Forester carbine, 1970 vintage. With a 2x7 scope plus sling and ammo, it's seven pounds. Easy toting. I tend to think of it as a 200-yard gun for Bambi.
My legs went and got old, so I dropped back from 9.5 pounds of '06 to a 700 Ti in 7mm08. I figure the cartridge is a .308 with ten grains weight less bullet. (Figuring that for deer, 150 30-caliber grains is as good as it gets.) The package is 6.5 pounds, fully dressed. The butt pad is good enough that it doesn't bother me at the bench rest, arthritic shoulders and all.
Sighted in it a couple of days ago; today is Mule Deer Season Eve, here in Texas.
Federal is now making my old pet handload, using the Sierra 85-grain HPBT. I use it for neck shots and cross-body heart shots on whitetail. No angling shots to get through meat to reach the heart/lungs. Within those restrictions, it works great. Ruinacious on coyotes, for that matter...
My legs went and got old, so I dropped back from 9.5 pounds of '06 to a 700 Ti in 7mm08. I figure the cartridge is a .308 with ten grains weight less bullet. (Figuring that for deer, 150 30-caliber grains is as good as it gets.) The package is 6.5 pounds, fully dressed. The butt pad is good enough that it doesn't bother me at the bench rest, arthritic shoulders and all.
Sighted in it a couple of days ago; today is Mule Deer Season Eve, here in Texas. Federal is now making my old pet handload, using the Sierra 85-grain HPBT. I use it for neck shots and cross-body heart shots on whitetail. No angling shots to get through meat to reach the heart/lungs. Within those restrictions, it works great. Ruinacious on coyotes, for that matter...
sansone
Member
243 has become my favorite centerfire rifle cartridge
Art,is that Sako the Mannlicher stocked rifle??
If so I foolishly let a 60's made one slip past me in the late 1970's when one of the guys that hunted on our place was giving up hunting because of age and bad eyes.
His was in .308 and I let it go because at the time that full stock just did not look right to my young eyes.
God that thing would be worth well over a grand right now and all he was asking was $200.00 equipped with an old Denver Redfield 4 power scope.
My foolish youth!!
If so I foolishly let a 60's made one slip past me in the late 1970's when one of the guys that hunted on our place was giving up hunting because of age and bad eyes.
His was in .308 and I let it go because at the time that full stock just did not look right to my young eyes.
God that thing would be worth well over a grand right now and all he was asking was $200.00 equipped with an old Denver Redfield 4 power scope.
My foolish youth!!
Harley Quinn
Member
If you go with the 6mm you can step it up some with the 6 mm improved but you need dies for it...
http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek021.html
http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek021.html
Captcurt
Member
It is a real shame that the 260 isn't more popular. I had a 260 in a Compact Ruger and it is an awesome little round. I shot a couple of whitetails with it using 120gr Speers. Works Swell! Now Nosler makes a 100 gr. Partition that you can sizzle around 3300 fps. I may have to get another one if I can find a fullsized rifle with at least a 22 inch barrel. I think that is one reason that they don't sell well. I think that Ruger made a few but now all I can find are Compacts, Remington Mtn. Rifles and 7's.
Kachok
Member
I like the 6mm rem, but I am a handloader so I can afford to play with more rare calibers. I like the slightly larger case and the longer neck, but I would have to find a 6mm with a 1:9 twist so I could use 100+ gr bullets. There are few 80-90 gr bullets that I trust on deer.
grtwhthntr
Member
I'd also go with the .243 of the choices you listed. However, if elk are on the menu, I'd step up to a 7mm-08 or a .308. Either of these would be great deer/elk rounds. They would be a little on the heavy side for varmints though.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
heeler: Yeah, it began life as the L-579 Mannlicher-stocked 19" carbine. Pre-Garcia, before the fire at the Sako factory. The first shot from a cold barrel always went to the same place. At some five minutes between shots, I could get a 3/4" group. At 30 seconds? A vertical string! Rising and rising and rising, one inch per shot. Very disappointing.
Enter my gunsmith uncle. Off with the front piece of the two-piece stock. (Two-piece stock? Are you kidding me?) The result with handloads was generally about 5/8 MOA. Three shots behind a dime is common. I reshaped the front of the forearm and sweated off the front sight. It's not real pretty, but it's a serious go-to shooter.
I've since shunned Mannlicher stocks like the plague...
Enter my gunsmith uncle. Off with the front piece of the two-piece stock. (Two-piece stock? Are you kidding me?) The result with handloads was generally about 5/8 MOA. Three shots behind a dime is common. I reshaped the front of the forearm and sweated off the front sight. It's not real pretty, but it's a serious go-to shooter.
I've since shunned Mannlicher stocks like the plague...
Harley Quinn
Member
I thought it came from the 06 cartridge 308 etc... I guess you could go clear back to 03 and say it was a copy of Mauser
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1903_Springfield
308 etc... I guess you could go clear back to 03 and say it was a copy of Mauserhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1903_Springfield
longdayjake
Member
If you are wanting to fireform .308 brass then I would say the .260. It won't be too much work. The .243 will really be a pain in the butt to make work.
Harley Quinn
Member
I believe you have to re-size the 308 down to 243, could not get it into the chamber otherwise
I thought it came from the 06 cartridge
nope, it is based off of the same case as the .257 Roberts which was in turn based off of the 7x57
http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/6mmr.html
http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/257r.html
Harley Quinn
Member
Thanks for the links and info on the 6mm/257 situation...
That explains some, why 243 and 308 are popular moreso than the 6mm/244 Rem...
The 06 is forerunner of the 308 and 243... So that would be one the reloaders would like, lots of 06 brass around, or use to be
Not much difference to be honest, you could use the 06 also imho...
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=Un3xTIyGJoGisAPgw_DYCw&ved=0CC4Q9QEwAg
Regards
That explains some, why 243 and 308 are popular moreso than the 6mm/244 Rem...
The 06 is forerunner of the 308 and 243... So that would be one the reloaders would like, lots of 06 brass around, or use to be
Not much difference to be honest, you could use the 06 also imho...
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=Un3xTIyGJoGisAPgw_DYCw&ved=0CC4Q9QEwAg
Regards
leatherneck448
Member
go with the .243 if youre looking for a good deer rifle/varmint gun.
I actually have a savage model 111 for sale at the moment thats chambered in .243 if youre interested.
I actually have a savage model 111 for sale at the moment thats chambered in .243 if youre interested.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Harley, what I've always heard about folks not really liking the 6mm Rem had to do with the early production. The slow twist kept it as a varmint rifle instead of having a dual-purpose capability like the .243 with its faster twist. By the time the name was changed from .244 Rem and rifles with faster twists were produced, the .243 had come to rule the market.
Alvin in AZ
Member
Since I'm working on a friend's 600 Remington in 6mm... thought I'd mention
a couple things I haven't read in the few threads I've read.
First of course is the fact that the 600 action is definitely a short-action and
it's a factory made 6mm Remington so the 6mm at least -was- available in
something other than a long action. Has an 18" barrel but there's talk about
re-barreling it to 24" and keeping the 6mm.
Second is the factory loaded 100 Core-Lokt 6mm Remington cartridge nose
is only about 1/16" from the front of the magazine box! :/ There goes one
of my favorite re-loading tricks, to seat the bullet so it touches the lands.
Oh well. :/ (so the bullet is pre-centered before it even starts to move)
Haven't shot it yet, just now getting done with pillar bedding it and removing
the plastic vent-rib and plastic trigger guard. Also going with Redfield Jr base
and extended front ring.
If it shoots extra good I'll be sure to get back here and brag on it! LOL
Alvin in AZ
ps- Googled this thread up with "6mm vs 243"
a couple things I haven't read in the few threads I've read.
First of course is the fact that the 600 action is definitely a short-action and
it's a factory made 6mm Remington so the 6mm at least -was- available in
something other than a long action. Has an 18" barrel but there's talk about
re-barreling it to 24" and keeping the 6mm.
Second is the factory loaded 100 Core-Lokt 6mm Remington cartridge nose
is only about 1/16" from the front of the magazine box! :/ There goes one
of my favorite re-loading tricks, to seat the bullet so it touches the lands.
Oh well. :/ (so the bullet is pre-centered before it even starts to move)
Haven't shot it yet, just now getting done with pillar bedding it and removing
the plastic vent-rib and plastic trigger guard. Also going with Redfield Jr base
and extended front ring.
If it shoots extra good I'll be sure to get back here and brag on it! LOL
Alvin in AZ
ps- Googled this thread up with "6mm vs 243"
Dr T
Member
My 6mm is a Remington 788, early 1970s vintage. I got it when I was in college and used it to re-learn how to shoot (after developing a terrible flinch shooting a 30-06). I killed 10 deer out of one box of cartridges (it fed my roommates and me), and was generally unhappy with the bullet performance (every one had a jacket-core separation and ended up under the skin on the far side of the deer. I suspect it was a bad lot of Remingon bullets. Nosler solid base bullets solved the bullet problem. Typical accuracy was 0.75" for 85 gr. Nosler solid base (I still have 100 squirreled away) and 0.5" with 100 gr. Nosler Solid base (alas, I have no more).
I moved on to heavier rifles (270, 30-06, 7mm-08).
Fast forward 30 or so years. My 243 is a T/C Icon. It shoots sub MOA with Hornady factory ammo, and I have a lot of confidence in Hornady bullets.
Both are excellent West Texas whitetail cartridges, as long as you don't hit a mesquite, post oak, or red berry juniper (they don't taste very good and don't look good mounted on a wall).
I moved on to heavier rifles (270, 30-06, 7mm-08).
Fast forward 30 or so years. My 243 is a T/C Icon. It shoots sub MOA with Hornady factory ammo, and I have a lot of confidence in Hornady bullets.
Both are excellent West Texas whitetail cartridges, as long as you don't hit a mesquite, post oak, or red berry juniper (they don't taste very good and don't look good mounted on a wall).
grubbylabs
Member
I am getting the Idea that if you hand load the 6mm is the way to go, but if you ever think you may need to use factory ammo then you are going to be happier with the 243.
Is that as close to a correct assumption as one could get from a thread like this?
Also I take it that I will be hard pressed to find a new 6mm but can find a new 243 pretty much any wear they sell rifles? It also seems that I want a 6mm in a 1:9 -1:10 twist, so to achieve this which rifle would I be looking for?
Is that as close to a correct assumption as one could get from a thread like this?
Also I take it that I will be hard pressed to find a new 6mm but can find a new 243 pretty much any wear they sell rifles? It also seems that I want a 6mm in a 1:9 -1:10 twist, so to achieve this which rifle would I be looking for?
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