25 yds. 2"GROUPS Big Deal

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DavePuzz

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Ok guys, i have seen thousands of threads of people testing their .45 acp handload @ 25 yards and never follow up on how they group @ 50 yards.
Is that all you guys load for is 25 yards?
Its been my experience over the years that what works @ 25 yards doesn't necessarily and automatically work @ 50 yds.
If you think i'm full of obama matter, take that 1911 out and setup some targets @ 50 yds. and i guarantee you will be back in the loading room after the first clip. Can i get an amen here from you ole-timers.
my best load is 4.7gn. wst/200gn missouri bullet co./7.5gn aa#5/same bullet.
@ 25 yds they group max spread 1.623"(wst) 1.972"(aa#5)
@ 50 yds. wst config. 1.888. aa#5 1.394".
get your 25 yarder to hit like that @ 50 yards n you've got yerself sumptin.
just because it hits @ 25 yards doesn't mean anything. i can pitch a rock @ 75 feet and hit sumptin. but it doesn't necessarily mean i am using my full potential.
the 1911 is too good of a weapon not to be used @ full potential.
ask any ole-timer.
sorry about the rant but i had to get it off my chest.....:neener:
 
So your aa#5 load gains accuracy after 25 yds.? I find that quite interesting.
I would like to see that physics behind that........ (or do you have some kind of a "homing" device in the bullet that doesn't kick in until it has traveled aways?):D:D
 
Many years ago I had a Ransom rest and did quite a lot of ammo and gun testing. If you multiply your 25 yd group size by 3 (not 2) you will get an excellent idea of your 50 yd groups. I set up a test one day where I caught the same groups at 25 and 50 (shooting through light paper at 25) and that's what I got. It wasn't exactly a factor of 3 but very close. Also if you have 4 bullets touching one another with one a 1/2" away at 25yds that loner will usually be 2 or 3 inches away at 50. That said, the accuracy requirements (at least for Bullseye shooting) are not as demanding at 25 as they are at 50. The 10 ring for timed and rapid fire at 25 yds is the same size as the 50 yd slow fire 10 ring. Your short line ammo doesn't need to meet as high a standard as your 50 yd does. Also 1 good group does not a load make! I used to average at least 3 but usually 4, 10 shot groups to find the best load for the long line.
 
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Curious what type of rest you were using. I actually sight my guns in for 11 yards. That is the most common target I shoot in competition. I don't shoot any 50 yard pistol competition.
 
sdc11090.jpg
50YDS RANSOM REST FROM MY 6" 9MM ROCK RIVER ARMS PPC GUN.
LEFT TARGET 10RDS, RIGHT TARGET 24 RDS
IN 9MM YET. WITH MY OWN LOADED AMMO.

"Was there a point to this one or did I miss it? "

50YD TOP SHELF ACCURACY LEAVES THE LOSING TO THE SHOOTER. BEST EQUIPMENT, BEST SCORE "YOU" PERSONALLY CAN SHOOT.

IF YOU SHOOT A COMPETITION AT 50YDS THAT WHERE IT REALLY COUNTS. AS IN BULLSEYE AND PPC. THERE IS AN OLD SAYING, " YOU WIN THE MATCH AT 50YDS BUT YOU LOOSE IT AT 25YDS". IN BULLSEYE THE X RING IS 1.7" ROUND AND THE 10RING IS 3.1". IN PPC THE X RING IS 2"WIDE BY 3" TALL (PERFECT OVAL) AND THE 10 RING IS 3" WIDE BY 5" TALL.
BULLSEYE 10RDS IN 10MIN ONE HANDED AT 50YD.
PPC 24 RDS IN 2MIN 45 SEC WITH TWO HANDS IN 4 DIFFERENT POSITIONS INCLUDING 3 RELOADS. JIM P
 
I'm always amazed at the accuracy claims made by folks on the internet.



..........just sayin'.
 
" i guarantee you will be back in the loading room after the first clip. Can i get an amen here from you ole-timers."

As a bona fide old fart (62 yrs old) I'll give ya' an amen and even forgive calling the magazine a clip - lol

Back in the days of the flintlock musketoon, when I was on an Army pistol team with my 1911A1, I could actually see them 50 yard targets. Not any more - lol. I now practice for and most always shoot to my required MOD (Minute of Dead) self-defense accuracy. Everything stays within an 8" circle at 25 FEET and less which is way more accuracy than SD shooting needs only IMHO.
 
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PO2Hammer Careful you don't injure your shoulder patting yourself on the back, it's bad for your groups.
Click to expand...
If you are directing your comments to me it’s no brag if you can do it.:what: I did say on a very good day is opposed to every day but then I come close on most days.:) Oh yes may I add those weren’t cream puff loads but Remington Match Ball loaded in them there brown box with black lettering.;)
 
PO2Hammer Careful you don't injure your shoulder patting yourself on the back, it's bad for your groups.

If you are directing your comments to me it’s no brag if you can do it. I did say on a very good day is opposed to every day but then I come close on most days. Oh yes may I add those weren’t cream puff loads but Remington Match Ball loaded in them there brown box with black lettering.
Click to expand...

That is an amazing group. Far and above what I can do or have ever done with a M1911.

I can do that with a rifle at 50 yards :neener:
 
For me, 50yds is not a .45 auto circumstance that I am concerned with. My .45 auto is the truck gun for SD. It's an HK USPf and quite capable at 25yds. I may try it at 50yds just to see what it will do.

If I am shooting at 50yds, it's going to be the .357 mag or .44 mag or special. If it's past 50yds, I'm shooting the 44 mag.
 
If you are directing your comments to me it’s no brag if you can do it. I did say on a very good day is opposed to every day but then I come close on most days. Oh yes may I add those weren’t cream puff loads but Remington Match Ball loaded in them there brown box with black lettering.
Click to expand...
No, I was not. I was directing them at the OP. I should have been more specific.
Your groups look great, and realistic. It wasn't too many years ago that I has a few 50 yard groups like that with my USP .45 and match handloads. Also a few around 4" with a .38 Super. There, now my shoulder is sore.
I can still deliver some pretty good groups at 25 yards, but the targets at 50 are too hard to see clearly.
Thinking about a Leupold Deltapoint on my .45 to make things a little easier on the old eyes.
Merry Christmas to all.
 
50 yards? go ahead and make it 100 yards
Click to expand...

Actually on occasion I do. I shoot "Hunters Pistol" which involves metal silhouette targets at 25,50,75 and 100 yds. The shooting is done standing offhand. I shoot a K-38 (S&W Model 14) and the accuracy requirements are pretty high so I do test for group at 100 yds. It is hard enough holding the "dot" on the targets at those ranges so when I do manage to do that I want a load accurate enough to hit the target! To all a Merry Christmas
 
JimPGov said:
sdc11090.jpg
50YDS RANSOM REST FROM MY 6" 9MM ROCK RIVER ARMS PPC GUN.
LEFT TARGET 10RDS, RIGHT TARGET 24 RDS
IN 9MM YET. WITH MY OWN LOADED AMMO.

"Was there a point to this one or did I miss it? "

50YD TOP SHELF ACCURACY LEAVES THE LOSING TO THE SHOOTER. BEST EQUIPMENT, BEST SCORE "YOU" PERSONALLY CAN SHOOT.

IF YOU SHOOT A COMPETITION AT 50YDS THAT WHERE IT REALLY COUNTS. AS IN BULLSEYE AND PPC. THERE IS AN OLD SAYING, " YOU WIN THE MATCH AT 50YDS BUT YOU LOOSE IT AT 25YDS". IN BULLSEYE THE X RING IS 1.7" ROUND AND THE 10RING IS 3.1". IN PPC THE X RING IS 2"WIDE BY 3" TALL (PERFECT OVAL) AND THE 10 RING IS 3" WIDE BY 5" TALL.
BULLSEYE 10RDS IN 10MIN ONE HANDED AT 50YD.
PPC 24 RDS IN 2MIN 45 SEC WITH TWO HANDS IN 4 DIFFERENT POSITIONS INCLUDING 3 RELOADS. JIM P
Click to expand...
most excellent!
 
DavePuzz said:
Ok guys, i have seen thousands of threads of people testing their .45 acp handload @ 25 yards and never follow up on how they group @ 50 yards.
Is that all you guys load for is 25 yards?
Its been my experience over the years that what works @ 25 yards doesn't necessarily and automatically work @ 50 yds.
If you think i'm full of obama matter, take that 1911 out and setup some targets @ 50 yds. and i guarantee you will be back in the loading room after the first clip. Can i get an amen here from you ole-timers.
my best load is 4.7gn. wst/200gn missouri bullet co./7.5gn aa#5/same bullet.
@ 25 yds they group max spread 1.623"(wst) 1.972"(aa#5)
@ 50 yds. wst config. 1.888. aa#5 1.394".
get your 25 yarder to hit like that @ 50 yards n you've got yerself sumptin.
just because it hits @ 25 yards doesn't mean anything. i can pitch a rock @ 75 feet and hit sumptin. but it doesn't necessarily mean i am using my full potential.
the 1911 is too good of a weapon not to be used @ full potential.
ask any ole-timer.
sorry about the rant but i had to get it off my chest.....:neener:
Click to expand...
Follw up:

This was directed to (i counted 31) the guys who came into THR, asked for a .45 load. got some good info. left. came back. posted how well it shot @ 25yds. left.. gone, never to be heard from again..
 
PO2Hammer said:
No, I was not. I was directing them at the OP. I should have been more specific.
Your groups look great, and realistic. It wasn't too many years ago that I has a few 50 yard groups like that with my USP .45 and match handloads. Also a few around 4" with a .38 Super. There, now my shoulder is sore.
I can still deliver some pretty good groups at 25 yards, but the targets at 50 are too hard to see clearly.
Thinking about a Leupold Deltapoint on my .45 to make things a little easier on the old eyes.
Merry Christmas to all.
Click to expand...
and a happy holliday to you too Sir.
the Delta sounds good, i'm allmost there myself.
 
RandyP said:
" i guarantee you will be back in the loading room after the first clip. Can i get an amen here from you ole-timers."

As a bona fide old fart (62 yrs old) I'll give ya' an amen and even forgive calling the magazine a clip - lol

Back in the days of the flintlock musketoon, when I was on an Army pistol team with my 1911A1, I could actually see them 50 yard targets. Not any more - lol. I now practice for and most always shoot to my required MOD (Minute of Dead) self-defense accuracy. Everything stays within an 8" circle at 25 FEET and less which is way more accuracy than SD shooting needs only IMHO.
Click to expand...
you are most forgiving and i will not make that mistake again.lol
 
my best load is 4.7gn. wst/200gn missouri bullet co./7.5gn aa#5/same bullet.
@ 25 yds they group max spread 1.623"(wst) 1.972"(aa#5)
@ 50 yds. wst config. 1.888. aa#5 1.394".
Click to expand...
How was that 50 yard group shot?
Ransom?
Benchrested?
If it's standing/free hand, please don't respond, my ego can't handle it.
 
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