.260 or 6.5x55?

[The Big D]

If you were buying a new (or used) rifle, would you choose a .260 Remington or 6.5x55 Swede, and why?

.260 for hunting, 6.5 Creedmoor for long range/accuracy, and 6.5x55 never.

Get an 1:8 twist barrel no matter what. 6.5mm calibers are notorious for under-twisted barrels.

 

[The Big D]

I've read elsewhere that the .260 loses accuracy with bullets over 130 gr. Personally, I don't know.

This is only due to twist rate issues. Get a 1:8 twist barrel, and you will have no accuracy problems.

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

Usually it doesn't take most of us 20 rounds to down a deer. However, if the gun is going to be used to hold off the forces of darkness & evil, get an evil black rifle.

900F

 

[R.W.Dale]

I would choose whichever came in a long action. Beyond that the point is moot

Our obsession with lopping 1/2" off a bolt throw has hamstrung many potentially outstanding cartridges. 260 rem included

 

[Olympus]

I would choose whichever came in a long action. Beyond that the point is moot

Our obsession with lopping 1/2" off a bolt throw has hamstrung many potentially outstanding cartridges. 260 rem included

It's not just the bolt throw, it's also the overall length of the gun. You can run a longer barrel on a short action and have the same overall length as a long action with a shorter barrel. Or with both guns having the same length barrel, the short action would have a shorter overall length.

That's something that i consider in a hunting rifle. I don't like long overall rifles.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Then do yourself a favor and go to a single shot. THAT makes a big difference in overall length. The difference in a long vs short action is inconsequential

 

[Olympus]

Then do yourself a favor and go to a single shot. THAT makes a big difference in overall length. The difference in a long vs short action is inconsequential

I have 2 single shots also. I primarily hunt with a single shot. But I'd pick a short action over a long action if the ballistics were very similar like the 260 and 6.5 Swede.

 

[mshootnit]

I would want a short action so I would go 260 Rem.

 

[The Big D]

I have 2 single shots also. I primarily hunt with a single shot. But I'd pick a short action over a long action if the ballistics were very similar like the 260 and 6.5 Swede.

Sure - this makes perfect sense. Why get a larger, heavier gun to do a job that is done exactly the same by a lighter, smaller gun? Assuming of course you plan to carry the gun in the field and the recoil isn't extreme in either case. Bench shooting is different, since weight is fairly irrelevant.

 

[R.W.Dale]

But the performance is t similar. Loaded to the same pressure you will have significantly more velocity potential with long 6.5 bullets seated outside the case rather than stuck way down inside the powder column.

If you are stuck with factory ammo this distinction is moot.

But it's exactly why 6.5 creedmore is shorter. To replicate 6.5x55 in a short action. Something the 260 case is simply too long to do

 

[Dr T]

One note on the 6.5 CM: The loaded Hornady factory match ammo (with the 120 gr and 140 gr Amax bullets) is just about at the price of the components. It is very accurate and works on whitetails.

 

[Paul7]

The 6.5x55 is a fantastic round,and for the guy's that have a problem with a long action receiver-get over it,there's no difference in the accuracy,you just pull the bolt about an inch farther back than a short action.

Exactly, has anyone ever missed an animal because they have a long action?

 

[Paul7]

To get the most out of the Swede, you need to hand load due to pressure limitations of most factory ammo.

No doubt it can be loaded hotter than factory loads, but in my experience it isn't necessary. I don't reload, and have taken a dozen animals with my Sako 6.5x55 from hogs to cow elk, all DRT, with factory ammo. Anything bigger than that I'll use my .30-'06.

 

[justin22885]

the difference in overall length may be minimal, but this isnt 1940 where everythings a long action anymore.. youre going to find more aftermarket for just about anything in short action, you can get a .260 remington in an AR-10, you CANT get a 6.5x55 in one because long actions have been made obsolete by more modern, more efficient powders and better actions allowing for higher pressures in smaller packages

now you want to talk about reloading?.. theres no reality in which youre going to get 6.5x55 brass cheaper than you would .308, reloading 260 will be much cheaper for that fact alone

so more weapons available, semi automatic options, detachable magazines being available depending on the rifle, cheaper reloading, bigger aftermarket, all advantages over the long action which all you get out of that is an inch longer receiver, more expensive ammunition, and little flexibility in what you can do from there

why anyone would take the greater limitations of a long action cartridge when shorter action cartridges of EQUAL performance are available just defies all common sense

 

[eastbank]

they both have pro,s and con,s. i like the short actions for their weight and compactness for hard walking terrain hunting, the long action to load bullets out longer for target and long range hunting. i even use single shots, browning, winchester, ruger and pedersoli in calibers from .22 to .458mag and with a long throut the single shots realy come into their own. it,s your dollar buy what suits your needs and don,t look back. eastbank.

 

[The Big D]

But the performance is t similar. Loaded to the same pressure you will have significantly more velocity potential with long 6.5 bullets seated outside the case rather than stuck way down inside the powder column.

This is not true. I took Quickload had it find the fastest max pressure load for a 140gr soft point out of a 24" barrel for 6.5x55 and got 2905 ft/s for a nearly full case of RL26. Not saying that's an accurate load, just saying it appears you can push the bullet that fast. Now I did the same thing for 6.5 Creedmoor, and I get 2968 ft/s, again with RL26. I did .260 (2.8" OAL) and got 2914 with RL26 again.

Max pressure and case efficiency matter. The 6.5x55 is lousy at both of them.

The motto of the 6.5x55 should be "Short Action Performance With Long Action Weight and Length." This is why I would recommend it for no application at all at this point. It is simply an obsolete cartridge.

 

[Paul7]

the difference in overall length may be minimal, but this isnt 1940 where everythings a long action anymore.. youre going to find more aftermarket for just about anything in short action, you can get a .260 remington in an AR-10, you CANT get a 6.5x55 in one because long actions have been made obsolete by more modern, more efficient powders and better actions allowing for higher pressures in smaller packages

now you want to talk about reloading?.. theres no reality in which youre going to get 6.5x55 brass cheaper than you would .308, reloading 260 will be much cheaper for that fact alone

so more weapons available, semi automatic options, detachable magazines being available depending on the rifle, cheaper reloading, bigger aftermarket, all advantages over the long action which all you get out of that is an inch longer receiver, more expensive ammunition, and little flexibility in what you can do from there

I don't care about semi autos, detachable mags, reloading, aftermarket (I bought a rifle I like with no changes needed), or ammo costs as I shoot around 20-40 rounds a year with it.

why anyone would take the greater limitations of a long action cartridge when shorter action cartridges of EQUAL performance are available just defies all common sense

Tell it to the dozen animals I've killed with my 'obsolete' 6.5x55.

It would seem to me loading the Swede hotter would defeat part of it's appeal, low recoil and muzzle blast.

 

[R.W.Dale]

This is not true. I took Quickload had it find the fastest max pressure load for a 140gr soft point out of a 24" barrel for 6.5x55 and got 2905 ft/s for a nearly full case of RL26. Not saying that's an accurate load, just saying it appears you can push the bullet that fast. Now I did the same thing for 6.5 Creedmoor, and I get 2968 ft/s, again with RL26. I did .260 (2.8" OAL) and got 2914 with RL26 again.

Max pressure and case efficiency matter. The 6.5x55 is lousy at both of them.

The motto of the 6.5x55 should be "Short Action Performance With Long Action Weight and Length."

Are you loading 6.5x55 to the same pressure ?

Because in a modern rifle there's no reason not to.

 

[The Big D]

Are you loading 6.5x55 to the same pressure ?

Because in a modern rifle there's no reason not to.

I'm loading all rounds to their respective CIP and SAMMI maxes.

As far as good reasons not to hot-rod, even in guns used for hotter cartridges, I can think of 2:

1) In most of Europe where the 6.5x55 has some following, my understanding is it's illegal to load above CIP max. I've seen this in print several times, but not bothered to verify it.

2) Just because the gun is up to the task doesn't mean the brass is.

 

[The Big D]

Incidentally, I did some playing around, and the limits of 6.5x55 appear to be more related to efficiency than max pressure. Increasing the 6.5x55 max pressure to 60K PSI gives a max velocity in my experiment of 2974 ft/s (RL26 again). That's essentially the same as the diminutive Creedmoor.

Efficiency REALLY matters.

 

[greenlion]

You can also form 6.5 Creedmoor brass by buying 6.5 Creedmoor ammo from Hornady and reusing the empty brass when you're done shooting it...

 

[MCF]

Researching the same thing. I think the only reason I'm leaning toward the swede is because I do handload. Glad you started this thread. I joined for the info on the swede and the like calibers.

 

[mshootnit]

Generally I go for the one that has the most powder capacity in the shortest action with the longest barrel. That is why I go with 270 WSM in a 24" slim barrel rifle.
Applying this concept to the tamer 6.5's would lead me to get the 260 Rem. More case capacity than creed with the same length rifle. The swede might have a slight edge, but then you are into the longer rifle.
The long action thing might not matter at all to you if you are a gangley 5'11" or 6'+. But if you are 5'9" and need a chair to reach the Oreos then it matters.

 

[justin22885]

i think people have a misunderstanding how these sort of things work, chamber pressures, powders, cartridge capacity.. etc.. even if you load 6.5x55mm to 63,000 PSI to match the creedmoor youre getting LESS than a 50fps difference out of a 24 inch barrel?... even smaller difference between the two in shorter barrel lengths, so even if you loaded a 6.5x55 to pressures youre never going to find in factory loaded ammunition as its potentially unsafe in most the rifles that fire it, youre going to get about a 30fps improvement over 6.5 creedmor

why is that?.. its simple, the way cartridges work is the powder burns, turns to a gas, and this gas creates pressure, the pressure acts upon the base of the bullet creating the thrust it needs to propel it out the barrel.. more powder at the same pressure doesnt do much to increase actual velocity in short barrel lengths because you still have the same amount of pressure acting upon the base of the bullet.. to be exact, a .264 bullet has an area of 0.0547391 in2 multiplies by 63,000 PSI this comes out to 3448.5633 pounds of force whether its out of a creedmor, a 260 remington, a 6.5x55mm

the differences between the two is that when you have more powder in a given cartridge youre able to keep up higher pressures for longer and build more velocity but in order to do so the bullet needs to stay in the barrel for a longer period of time to allow that flatter pressure curve to act upon this, this would require a longer barrel if using the same bullet weight to achieve... therefor youre ONLY going to see a big improvement in 6.5x55 over 260 remington or 6.5 creedmor when you get into barrel lengths beyond 24 inches which i doubt any of us are doing

so keep 6.5x55 its standard pressure and the short action cartridges are going to surpass it.. increase the pressure to potentially unsafe levels and you'll about break even in any realistic length of barrel.. is 30fps in a 24 inch barrel worth the more expensive ammunition, harder to find brass, heavier, less compact action, and fewer options chambered for it?.. no, no its not, and remember, you'll only get that 30fps if you handload (so then you have to go buy reloading equipment) and only if you push it to possibly unsafe levels

 

[Txhillbilly]

It's not just the bolt throw, it's also the overall length of the gun. You can run a longer barrel on a short action and have the same overall length as a long action with a shorter barrel. Or with both guns having the same length barrel, the short action would have a shorter overall length.

That's something that i consider in a hunting rifle. I don't like long overall rifles.

The problem with the 260 Remington shooting the long match grade bullets like the 140 grain Berger VLD - Hornady A-Max - Sierra Matchking,etc.,you are handicapped with most short action magazine OAL limits.
I shoot a DPMS LR-260H,and I'm limited with a COAL of 2.810" because of the magazines,I have to seat the 140 gr match bullets around .100" or more off the lands to shoot them out of this rifle. It's like that with most short action - bolt action rifles.

The 6.5 Creedmoor solved that problem with a shorter case with a better shoulder angle for a better powder burn.

It's easy to see the differences in how seating depth effects these cartridges. The 6.5 CM on the left is loaded at .010" off the lands,and the 260 Remington on the right is loaded at magazine length.



I'll probably change out my heavy barreled 25-06 with a 260 Remington barrel when I shoot it out. Then I'll be able to seat the bullets out near the lands,and still be able to use the magazine in the rifle.
Using a Long action instead of a Short action only adds about 4-5 ounces of weight to an entire rifle,if you can't handle that,start working out.