.260 Rem or 6.5 Creedmoor?

[RugerOldArmy]

I'll give you this. I posted the results from the wrong source.

Super Shoot XLIV, May 25 - 28 2016

10 1/2lb


100 Yards


Match

WU DAVID CROFT 0.086

1 BILLY STEVENS 0.088

2 DON POWELL 0.093

3 GEORGE CARTER 0.125

4 MARK BEUTTGEN 0.101

5 LEE EUBER 0.092


Small Group

DAVID CROFT 0.086


Number of Shooters at this Yardage: 208


200 Yards


Match

WU KIP JONES 0.218

1 STEVE TURNER 0.233

2 JACK NEARY 0.223

3 WYATT PEINHARDT 0.245

4 DANIEL PEREZ 0.284

5 DAVID ROBINSON 0.236


Small Group

KIP JONES 0.218


Number of Shooters at this Yardage: 199


100 Yard Agg.


1 HOWARD LEVY 0.1616

2 JEFF GAIDOS 0.1750

3 GENE BUKYS 0.1850

4 DALE BOOP 0.1914

5 BILLY STEVENS 0.1940

6 BUDDY ROSS 0.2056

7 WAYNE CAMPBELL 0.2072

8 WYATT PEINHARDT 0.2118

9 DON HARDEMAN 0.2156

10 KOBUS VISSER 0.2184

11 PAUL WEIHE 0.2206

12 KEVIN DONALDS 0.2208

13 JACK NEARY 0.2232

14 LEE EUBER 0.2234

15 LARRY COSTA 0.2262

16 ALLEN ARNETTE 0.2266

17 MARK ENGLE 0.2280

18 CHARLIE HOOD 0.2290

19 ANDY SHIFFLETT 0.2308

20 ALLIE EUBER 0.2320



200 Yard Agg.


1 KALLIE VENZKE 0.2048

2 WYATT PEINHARDT 0.2218

3 JAN HEMMES 0.2342

4 JACK NEARY 0.2350

5 JEFF SUMMERS 0.2375

6 DAVE BRUNO 0.2379

7 LESTER BRUNO 0.2427

8 BOB BRUSHINGHAM 0.2438

9 BART SAUTER 0.2439

10 LEE HACHIGIAN 0.2448

11 REX RENEAU 0.2451

12 MARK BEUTTGEN 0.2460

13 BUDDY ROSS 0.2478

14 BILLY STEVENS 0.2545

15 KEVIN DONALDS 0.2547

16 CHRIS HARRIS 0.2579

17 JOE HYNES 0.2606

18 GREG WALLEY 0.2620

19 GENE BUKYS 0.2637

20 BILL SYMONS 0.2644



Grand Agg.


1 WYATT PEINHARDT 0.2168

2 BILLY STEVENS 0.2242

3 GENE BUKYS 0.2243

4 BUDDY ROSS 0.2267

5 JEFF GAIDOS 0.2283

6 KALLIE VENZKE 0.2285

7 JACK NEARY 0.2291

8 KEVIN DONALDS 0.2377

9 WAYNE CAMPBELL 0.2385

10 BART SAUTER 0.2417

11 DALE BOOP 0.2436

12 LEE HACHIGIAN 0.2441

13 JEFF SUMMERS 0.2442

14 JIM CARMICHEL 0.2552

15 KOBUS VISSER 0.2555

16 CHRIS HARRIS 0.2558

17 MARK BEUTTGEN 0.2598

18 ALLEN ARNETTE 0.2641

19 JAN HEMMES 0.2649

20 LESTER BRUNO 0.2672

 

[rayatphonix]

I have both and I'd say it's a toss up for what your after. I actually had an easier time developing a load for my 260 but m not trying for 1/4 moa groups.

 

[Flatbush Harry]

I've got a lot of .308 brass and have 37 years reloading experience so the .260 Rem was my choice. Still working on loads but I get best accuracy with H4831sc. This was 5 shots.





I've got a pretty good rifle. This year I'll take it to 1,000 yards when I finish working up a load.

Good luck and good shooting.

Harry

 

[CB900F]

RugerOldArmy;

I'll stir the pot a bit & firmly say "neither". I've already put my money where my typing fingers are also, and that money was spent on a custom left handed 6.5 X 55 mm Swede on a modern action. Couldn't be happier & don't regret a dime spent.

900F

 

[Txhillbilly]

I shoot and load for the 6.5 CM and 260 Remington,as well as a 260 Ackley Improved that I just built.
Brass is a toss up with either,My 260 is an AR platform that I hog hunt with,so I just resize 243 Winchester brass for it. Since I have to load at magazine length for it,I pretty much only shoot 140 gr Sierra Gameking's out of it.
With the 6.5 CM and 260 AI,they are both bolt actions built off of Savage actions. If you're wanting to shoot the long heavy,high BC match bullets,I'd suggest choosing the 6.5 Creedmoor. You can easily remain within the magazine length using the Creedmoor case,and you can't do that with most 260 Remington barrel chambers.

Reloading for either is simple,they both use the same powders with most bullets. I use Hornady and Nosler brass with my 6.5 Creedmoor currently,and have also fire formed some using 22-250 brass,just to see if it worked. It is a little short to begin with,but stretches out in a couple firings. I only use Winchester brass on my 260,it's cheap and I don't care if I lose it when hunting. I fire formed 100 Lapua 260 cases to use with the 260 AI.

I will say that my 6.5 Creedmoor is the most accurate rifle that I have ever owned or built. I have another barrel just waiting to be screwed onto another action setting in the safe!

 

[RugerOldArmy]

I have both and I'd say it's a toss up for what your after.

Looks that way Ray. Thx.

Still working on loads but I get best accuracy with H4831sc. This was 5 shots.

Promising results Harry. Thanks. I have a few jugs of H4831 too. BTW, I love your notes on your target, with load and wind notes!

money was spent on a custom left handed 6.5 X 55 mm Swede on a modern action.

There is another old name I remember from the board! You know, if I was building a sporter for deer hunting, or found a nice old one, the Swede would have been in the running. Classic cartridge!

With the 6.5 CM and 260 AI,they are both bolt actions built off of Savage actions. If you're wanting to shoot the long heavy,high BC match bullets,I'd suggest choosing the 6.5 Creedmoor. You can easily remain within the magazine length using the Creedmoor case,and you can't do that with most 260 Remington barrel chambers.

Sounds like you did almost exactly what I'm looking to do Txhillbilly. Thanks for your point on the Creedmoor and the magazine. What was your donor action from? A 10, or a 12 BVSS/VLP?

 

[Offfhand]

With the 6.5 CM and 260 AI,they are both bolt actions built off of Savage actions. If you're wanting to shoot the long heavy,high BC match bullets,I'd suggest choosing the 6.5 Creedmoor. You can easily remain within the magazine length using the Creedmoor case,and you can't do that with most 260 Remington barrel chambers.

Why not?

 

[RugerOldArmy]

Why not?

The 6.5 Creedmoor is a shorter cartridge than the .260. So I'm assuming his point is that you could load bullets with a longer OAL, and still fit in a magazine sized for the .308 family of cartridges. That might be an advantage when handloading the longer bullets, and playing with whether they like a jamb, or a jump, to the lands.

Not to put words in his mouth....but that is what I think he was meaning.

 

[eastbank]

a .260 built on a intermedate 98 mauser action would be a ex choice and the action is long enough for the standard 8x57 round, so the 6.5x51 AKA .260 would have enough room for the bullets to be seated out for extra long match bullets with out infringing on powder space. eastbank.

 

[Sav .250]

"Any thought`s?" Seems to me leaving it up to others to help convince you one way or another is counter productive . Do some more home work. Get the facts then make up your own mind.
That way you can say....you did it your way. J s/n.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

a .260 built on a intermedate 98 mauser action would be a ex choice and the action is long enough for the standard 8x57 round, so the 6.5x51 AKA .260 would have enough room for the bullets to be seated out for extra long match bullets with out infringing on powder space. eastbank.

That may be the case Eastbank, but headspacing a drop-in barrel by screwing it on a Savage action is easier.

Love your Avatar! Looks like you've bagged my mother-in-law!

 

[RugerOldArmy]

Do some more home work. Get the facts then make up your own mind.

Why didn't I think of that?

 

[Offfhand]

a .260 built on a intermedate 98 mauser action would be a ex choice and the action is long enough for the standard 8x57 round, so the 6.5x51 AKA .260 would have enough room for the bullets to be seated out for extra long match bullets with out infringing on powder space. eastbank.

The same would be true with a Creed, so what's the difference?

 

[CB900F]

Txhillbilly;

That Sierra GameKing, catalog #1730, is what my Swede load uses. I get excellent performance on antelope, deer, & elk, how do you find it to work on hogs?

Let's see here, my Swede is built on a left hand Tikka action that was blueprinted & had a custom recoil lug fitted before the Lilja 22" medium sporter weight barrel was screwed in. I had provided the smith with a dummy cartridge to ream the chamber to also. It's in a Rob Smith walnut stock & wears a Zeiss 3.5-10X 44mm mil-dot scope in Talley rings. The point being here that even built as a hunting gun, 3-shot 100 yard groups measure in the .4 to .5 inch range. That's consistent over several years now. The best it's ever shot was a .261" 3-shot 100 yard group.

If I were to build a dedicated long range paper-puncher, it'd be a Swede & no doubt about it. I'd probably use a Defiance action & another Lilja barrel, put it in an A/I stock & a Jewel trigger. The glass is something that I'd have to make my mind up about when that actual time came, and in that mind there's several good possibilities. With the 55 mm case & a benchrest action, there's very little doubt in that supposed mind that the Swede will easily outperform any of the short boys.

900F

 

[RugerOldArmy]

Txhillbilly;

That Sierra GameKing, catalog #1730, is what my Swede load uses. I get excellent performance on antelope, deer, & elk, how do you find it to work on hogs?

Let's see here, my Swede is built on a left hand Tikka action that was blueprinted & had a custom recoil lug fitted before the Lilja 22" medium sporter weight barrel was screwed in. I had provided the smith with a dummy cartridge to ream the chamber to also. It's in a Rob Smith walnut stock & wears a Zeiss 3.5-10X 44mm mil-dot scope in Talley rings. The point being here that even built as a hunting gun, 3-shot 100 yard groups measure in the .4 to .5 inch range. That's consistent over several years now. The best it's ever shot was a .261" 3-shot 100 yard group.

If I were to build a dedicated long range paper-puncher, it'd be a Swede & no doubt about it. I'd probably use a Defiance action & another Lilja barrel, put it in an A/I stock & a Jewel trigger. The glass is something that I'd have to make my mind up about when that actual time came, and in that mind there's several good possibilities. With the 55 mm case & a benchrest action, there's very little doubt in that supposed mind that the Swede will easily outperform any of the short boys.

900F

Sounds like a very nice rifle CB900F. One that merits that limited space in a gunsafe.

 

[salt&battery]

I've got a lot of .308 brass and have 37 years reloading experience so the .260 Rem was my choice. Still working on loads but I get best accuracy with H4831sc. This was 5 shots.





I've got a pretty good rifle. This year I'll take it to 1,000 yards when I finish working up a load.

Good luck and good shooting.

Harry

that is impossible to achieve with the 260 only a 6.5 creed can accomplish that

 

[salt&battery]

The same would be true with a Creed, so what's the difference?

the difference is a lot of people cry that with the 260 you cant use 140 grain bullets without intruding in the powder space which I really don't believe and they say with the creed you can seat the bullets a tiny bit further to maybe get 10 fps more

 

[salt&battery]

a .260 built on a intermedate 98 mauser action would be a ex choice and the action is long enough for the standard 8x57 round, so the 6.5x51 AKA .260 would have enough room for the bullets to be seated out for extra long match bullets with out infringing on powder space. eastbank.

anytime I had a rifle rebarreled for a 308 based round even a 22-250 always used a long action

 

[RugerBassMan]

I have a 6.5-.308, much like a .260 except for the shorter neck and a 6.5X47 Lapua.

If I were to get a .260 I would have my gunsmith make a chamber so I could seat bullets like I do in the 6.5X47 Lapua. 140 boat tails with the junction of boat tail & shank right at the junction of neck and shoulder. COAL would be greater than 2.8.

In my 6.5-.308 120 Amax's seat way down into the cartridge while 123 Amax bullets don't. This is sort of academic since this rifle shooting 140 grain Sierra Match Kings has performed real well at up to 1000 yards despite the deeply seated 140 boat tail bullets, seating adjusted for optimal accuracy

I really like the 6.5X47 Lapua and it fits inside my sort action Ruger MKII perfectly with 140 boat tails. No problem with Rem 7 1/2 & CCI 450 & CCI 41 primers. Lapua brass over $1.15 each (no cheap once fired stuff) but lasts a long time at high pressures.

I have a FN Mauser that I am considering re-barreling and this rifle has a magazine box slightly shorter than the MKII long action being intended for 8X57 type rounds, some 140 grain 6.5-06 rounds are too long to fit but a .260 with a long throat allowing a COAL of about 2.9 inches would be a good fit and give me about 95% of the velocity of a 6.5-06 with greater barrel life.

My .22-.250 rounds, loaded with 75 Amax's have a COAL of 2.682 and a long action would be of no advantage except for a re-chamber to some .22-6mm Rem wild cat round. If I had a .308 and wanted to use it with 200 grain bullets I would use a long action having a chamber that would let me load the bullets as far out as the neck would hold them (some what shorter than 1 caliber depth)

So - if you are fussy about keeping the COAL at 2.8 inches or less and you don't want to seat bullets deeply into the case get a 6.5 Creedmoor or 6.5X47 Lapua. I plan to get a .260 having a long throat so it will fit inside my FN action Mauser at a COAL of slightly over 2.9 loaded with a 140 boat tail for the ability to seat long bullets wherever I want to seat them.

After WWII the Israeli army along with some Me109's acquired lots of M98's that were eventually re-barreled to .308 or 7.62X51 NATO.

 

[eastbank]

as i have several thousand .308 GI match and federal match once fired cases and load for the .243-.260-7mmo8-.308 and the.358, i,ll stick with the .260 as those cases were given to me for a little work done for a friend. and one of my favorite deer rifles is a .260,s in a 7600 remington pump. eastbank.

 

[Bart B.]

Lots of military team members gave their match brass to civilians; they paid for it in taxes. I always cautioned those getting mine that they were not all that great for competition but good for other stuff. None of the military semiauto match conditioned rifles had their bolt faces squared up with chamber axes. Those case's heads were flattened out of square and if reloaded, would string shots in the 1 to 7 o'clock axis right angles to the bolt locking lug in-battery axis. Stringing typically added 1/3 to 2/3 MOA to groups new cases produced. New case heads are typically quite square to their long axis.

 

[RugerBassMan]

From the slam bang of the M-14 to new or recent bolt action rifles. The solution might be to stand the once fired brass up on a smooth level surface then rotate it looking for run out but I don't want to do that with a batch of 100 or so. A .300 Ultra Mag would wobble more than a .308. No amount of any treatment would fix a non exact 90 degree relation between base and cartridge axis. I guess I am lucky in my use of once fired brass - but should I ever need ultimate accuracy using my .20 Practical would skip using the once fired stuff and dig into my stash of .223 Lapua, .223 Nosler, and 5.56X45 American Eagerel brass fearing non-90 degree bases. I would guess that AR type rifles might be better than M-14's in regard to their bolt face chamber relations.

 

[Bart B.]

Two lug bolt action rifles have demonstrated a half MOA or more horizontal shot stringing with out of square case heads. The Brits were one of the first to fix this problem. Their fullbore long range match rules required arsenal ammo be used. When their Mauser action rifles were rebarreled to 7.62 NATO, the 7.62 M80 ammo was much more accurate vertically, but had too much horizontal stringing as its case heads were not all that square. Even with squared up bolt faces, the problem showed up. They were able to get the rules changed and allow a new commercial action with 4 locking lugs be used. As the new Swing action lugs locked up at 3, 6, 9 and 12 o'clock, no more horizontal shot stringing. The other countries in the Commonwealth soon followed using other 4-lug actions.

 

[eastbank]

first picture is of two shots from my rem 700 in 7mm08 with a 2.5x8 leupold scope at 200 yards off a lead sled, one shot cold clean and the second 15 minutes later cold dirty with 45grs varget and a 120 nosler BT and a once fired 7.62x51 case out of a m-14, that m-14 must of had a very square bolt face. the second picture is of a shot taken at a beer can tab with the same load at 100 yards resting on the hood of a truck with a coat for a pad, after hunting all day in a light rain. as i only hunt and shoot informal matchs with friends any more, i,m good to go. eastbank.

 

[cdb1]

I'm glad I don't have a dog in this hunt. My understanding is the only real advantage of the 6.5 Creedmore-Creedmoore-Creedmoor over a .260 is the ability to seat longer cartridges without intruding on powder capacity. That's what the Internet says so I'm going with it. And since I'm a gentleman in the truest sense with taste, refinement and somewhat off-kilter mind I'll stick with my 6.5x55 in a modern action.