260 Rem; What's with the 9" twist

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theoldgringo

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Gents,
I hope I'm in the right section of the forum...........

Let me preface this "story" by saying I have a Karl Gustaf Swede long rifle, made in 1920, that is the best shooting rifle I own, with 140gr Swede surplus.

Went to the local big box sporting goods store this week to find a 6.5x55 (Tikka in mind) to shoot in the local IKES hunter class competitions. Well, sitting on two hooks immediately above the Tikka display was a Sako 75, walnut, hunter in 260 Rem., at a price I couldn't refuse. Knowing that 260 Rem and 6.5x55 are virtually identical ballistically, I grabbed this opportunity and ran with a new ($750.) Sako.

That was yesterday. Today I learn that Sako and, I guess, almost all manufacturers build their 260 Rems with a 1 in 9" twist rate, which is, at best, borderline for shooting anything over the 130 grain bullet, especially if you want to shoot a target bullet.

Finally to the question; Will the 140 gr boat-tail bullets (HPBT, A-Max, etc) work well with the 1 in 9" twist rate. Will a 140 gr hunting bullet like the V-Max be a better option, or would a 130gr, or less, target bullet do the job best.

I'm having a really hard time understanding why none of these rifles has an
8" twist rate to accommodate 140 gr, especially when Karl had shown everyone what to do with this caliber over a century ago with a 7 1/2" twist.

I'd sure appreciate some insight from somebody.

Thanks for "listening"...............tog
 
I'm having a really hard time understanding why none of these rifles has an
8" twist rate to accommodate 140 gr, especially when Karl had shown everyone what to do with this caliber over a century ago with a 7 1/2" twist.
Click to expand...

because according to the gun media and the brain washed masses a short action rifle is about 400% Mo-better than a long action one. When loaded to a COL that'll fit in a short action those LONG 140 and 160grn bullets gobble up enough case volume to really impede the 260's performance. So there really was no reason for the manufacturers to use a faster twist.

In my book a 6.5mm round that'll only shoot 120grn and lighter bullets is about as useful as a fishing pole at the Dead Sea. If we could get over our short action fad the 260rem could be a world beater cartridge when loaded to look like the 6.5x55 from the neck forward. Instead you have a cartridge that's biggest downfall is simply that it's not a 7mm-08
 
I have to agree with Krochus. For the same money, you could buy a Savage, and screw a 1-7 Shilen Supermatch barrel on it. In 260, 6.5x55, 6.5x47 Lapua, etc. In 30 minutes, in your own garage.
 
Since Remington factory loads the .260 with a 140 grain flatbase spitzer, you could surely go that route. I guess the makers figure they didn't need to cater to the target shooters in hunting rifles.

Berger says a 9" twist will stabilize his 140 gr VLD and I found a post by a shooter using a 9 twist for 139 gr Lapua Scenars.

If those seem (or test) marginal, Berger makes a 130 gr VLD, Lapua a 123 gr Scenar, and Sierra a 123 MK that should do well in the factory twist.
 
"I guess the makers figure they didn't need to cater to the target shooters in hunting rifles."

I suspect that is close to the explanation.

Of all the nation's shooters the number of people buying .260/6.5 rifles to shoot targets is a tiny fraction.

Even though target shooters use a lot of ammo - much more than the "hunting-only" crowd - most of that ammo sent off to the berms is not factory stuff - which is to say the amount of factorey ammo sold to the .260/6.5 caliber target shooters is a tiny fraction of ammo sales.

The B.C. of the heavier 6.5 bullets is not so much greater than the B.C. of the 120-grainers that more than a comparative handful of shooters will feel the 120-grainers to be inadequete, especially with the premium bullets. A 120-gr. bullet will kill just as much paper as a 140-gr. bullet and not any deader than does a 32-gr. bullet.

But - assuming it costs about the same to bore a rifle with a 1:8 twist as it does a 1:9 twist - it is curious that the companies seemed to have settled on the 1:9. Perhaps one of their foreign-born design engineers who attended Harvard on a scholarship derived from our taxes simply plugged an "accepted" set of numbers into her computer, toddled off to the Design Committee meeting and announced like Richard Dawson that: "Samsung Says: 1:9". Corporate faux-America is (in)famous for things like that, and deservedly so.

Personally - I don't see so much desperately wrong with the 6.5x55. But I am just a humble small-town boy from O-High-A, not a rabid targetsman or an eagle-eyed 800-yd.-minimum game shooter.

:cool:
 
Chiming in - I know the .260 is a favorite for long range target shooting but it is also one of the most versatile hunting cartridges. IMO better than the .243 or 7mm-08. Anyway, I guess I never thought that someone seriously interested in long range target shooting would expect to buy an off the shelf $750 rifle and expect that to be his platform. I'm glad companies are chambering for .260 as a hunting round. I wish Savage would.
 
Anyway, I guess I never thought that someone seriously interested in long range target shooting would expect to buy an off the shelf $750 rifle and expect that to be his platform.
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woof,

Those are the requirements and definition of "Hunter class" benchrest at my club. How would you do it?
 
IIRC, the 1 in 8 and 1 in 7.5 was/is for the super-long 160/162 grainers, not 140 grainers. So my guess is that 1 in 9 is perfectly good for most 140s. Now a Barnes MRX - something with non-typical construction or superlong nose - maybe not.
 
I read on another forum that next year Remington is introducing another model in 260 that will have 1/10 twist. The OP even verified this with a call to Remington. That seems backwards to me, especially with most good 6.5 bullets being heavy and long.
 
Quote:
IMO better than the .243 or 7mm-08. Anyway,

Why is it better?
Click to expand...
+1

I can load my 7mm-08 with anything from 100 grain HP's to 175 grain heavies. The heavy 7mm VLD's have some of the highest BC's of any caliber. I also like to have a wide selection of bullets. The 7mm got the 6.5mm beat there.
 
I read on another forum that next year Remington is introducing another model in 260 that will have 1/10 twist. The OP even verified this with a call to Remington. That seems backwards to me, especially with most good 6.5 bullets being heavy and long.
Click to expand...

Sounds exactly like the Remington of the last decade.
 
The 1:9 twist is one of the reasons the .260 isn't as popular as it should be, and why so many shooters turn to the 6.5x47 instead.
 
Like any other two calibers 0.5mm apart on the same case, the smaller one kicks marginally less and shoots marginally flatter while the larger one hits marginally harder.

Better or worse depends on the application.

The way I see it much of the huge 7mm bullet selection was designed around the most popular 7mm cartridge, the 7mm RM - and accordingly is too long, too heavy and often too tough for best results in the 7mm-08 running 300-400 fps slower. Looking at the 100-150 grain range that suits the case there's no great selection advantage.
 
Wait a second, your saying that Tikka made a Hunting Rifle that wont shoot as tight a group as a Target Rifle?
Well to Hades with Tikka! What were they thinking? Sheesh!

Come on.

If you want a target rifle, buy a target rifle. Or shoot this one for awhile and enjoy it for what it is, and when the rifling wears out, put on a target barrel.
 
George

The competition is "Hunter class" benchrest and the gun has to be a bone stock sporter weight barrel. That's the whole point of why the OP bought the gun I think. I can think of none better than a Sako for such a task.
 
Targets shooters don't tend to but 'off the rack' so why bother catering to them.

My latest build is a 260 in a Win M70 classic with a 1:8 Lilja tube. 139 Lapua Scenars are my food of choice, although I plan on trying some Lapua FMJBT. BC of 0.636 is hard not to like.

There's a reason that 6.5 is becoming a standard for LR rifle, whether it's 260, 6.5x47 or other. Many many really excellent match bullets.
 
GH,

As Horsemany said, "Hunter class" means just that. STOCK rifle. Trigger modifications may be allowed, ie: stoning and pull weight, but I'm reasonably sure that it's not legal to change from factory. For me it's never been an issue because I've always been completely stock.

skiNM,

I'm loading some 120 gr Sierra HPBT this evening and possibly some 140 gr AMax. I suspect the 120 gr will give the best performance, but, what the h**l, I'll give the 140's a shot...............tog
 
I'm having a really hard time understanding why none of these rifles has an
8" twist rate to accommodate 140 gr, especially when Karl had shown everyone what to do with this caliber over a century ago with a 7 1/2" twist
Click to expand...

The Mauser 94 and 96 rifles had that fast of a twist rate to stabilize very long 158gr bullets. I have to agree with the sentiments of others about short action rifles- it makes no sense to stuff what could have been an outstanding cartridge in an action that is so short that 1/2 the bullet needs to reside inside of the case. The 1:9 rifling rate might stabilize 140+ grain bullets, but a huge sacrifice to case capacity if one intends to use the magazine of the rifle.
 
My Sako

Guys,
Don't ASSUME that a 1/9 twist won't shoot 140 grainers....my SAKO varmit model in 260 [with 1/9 barrel] printed a .32" 3 shot group with 140 grain NOSLER competition bullets loaded with NOSLER brass and H4350.
 
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