taylorce1
Member
This ones easy Coke, Red heads, Black lingerie, thats what I prefer, but I won't turn down any of the above. I still prefer my Red Heads in/or out of Black lingerie before the Coke.
Sorry couldn't resist.
270 or 308 or 30-06
- Thread starter PITBULL
- Start date
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Sorry couldn't resist.
270 or 308 or 30-06
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can some one give me a comparison chart or something?
270
30-06
308
Maybe the following can help:
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/
http://www.browning.com/products/features/detail.asp?ID=5
http://www.gamecalls.net/table.html
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can some one give me a comparison chart or something?
270
30-06
308
Maybe the following can help:
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/
http://www.browning.com/products/features/detail.asp?ID=5
http://www.gamecalls.net/table.html
jpwilly
Member
Coke, Blondes, and Black Lingerie and it's the 30-06 for me!
30-06 Does everything the other two do + room to play! Cheap surplus is availabe for plinking too! Get a Garand and take the twins out...etc
30-06 Does everything the other two do + room to play! Cheap surplus is availabe for plinking too! Get a Garand and take the twins out...etc
Regolith
Member
I voted for the .308, mostly because I prefer the .280 Rem over the .270 Win, and a .308 is a short action cartridge was the .30-06 isn't.
They will all work spectacularly well on deer.
It should be noted, though, that the .30-06 has more selection when it comes to range of bullet weights (it can handle heavier bullets better than the .308, as it has more room in the case for them). Which means its probably better than the .308 if you might in the future want to hunt larger game animals with it, such as elk or moose.
They will all work spectacularly well on deer.
It should be noted, though, that the .30-06 has more selection when it comes to range of bullet weights (it can handle heavier bullets better than the .308, as it has more room in the case for them). Which means its probably better than the .308 if you might in the future want to hunt larger game animals with it, such as elk or moose.
Firepower!
member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2008
- Messages
- 723
.308
270 is no comparison. The choise is really between 30-06 and 308. AND I must say 308, even though if the choise of gun is in bolt actions I might not even vote couse I like the both about the same. 270 is a weaker caliber and not to be compared with these...not to say that it not good.
270 is no comparison. The choise is really between 30-06 and 308. AND I must say 308, even though if the choise of gun is in bolt actions I might not even vote couse I like the both about the same. 270 is a weaker caliber and not to be compared with these...not to say that it not good.
MCgunner
Member
How is the .270 weaker? It fires a slightly smaller bullet to a higher velocity. Energy is pretty close and nothing a .308 can kill, a .270 can't and just as dead and maybe a little farther out. I don't own a .270, I'm just sayin'.
Check out the ballistics charts, the .270 produces the same energy levels as the other two or real danged close. To me, it's just what you want in the GUN, not the caliber. I prefer my short action bolt gun in .308 for hunting in all situations from heavy brush to mountain canyons. It's a nice platform. I'm not that hung up on the caliber, have killed deer with other calibers, even magnum pistol rounds.
That don't matter to me. If I want to shoot something big and tough, I can use a lighter Barnes bullet to do the job better than a .30-06 shooting a heavy conventional bullet, or just as well, anyway. Toughest animal I take on is hogs and a 140 Barnes is real lethal on a hog at 2850 fps.
Firepower!
member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2008
- Messages
- 723
No. its not true
Shawnee
member
The "wide variety of bullets/loads" claim so often made for the 30/06 is true - but only if you are one of the small minority of American hunters who reloads.
If you are one of the millions who depend on buying your ammo at a store - and usually look for the lower prices - you'll quickly learn that when you go to the store the "variety" of 30/06 loads is no more wide than most other calibers. Usually you'll be very lucky to find four different bullet weights/style and don't be surprised if you find three or less. At some gun shops or mail order houses you'll find more but you're gonna pay for 'em, fersure.
If you are one of the millions who depend on buying your ammo at a store - and usually look for the lower prices - you'll quickly learn that when you go to the store the "variety" of 30/06 loads is no more wide than most other calibers. Usually you'll be very lucky to find four different bullet weights/style and don't be surprised if you find three or less. At some gun shops or mail order houses you'll find more but you're gonna pay for 'em, fersure.
Yup,
Remington loads six factory manunfactured bullet weights, seven if you want to count the 55 grain accelerator's, with a verity of bullets factory loaded for the good ol '06, five different weights for the 308, and a whopping two bullet weights each for the 260 or 7MM-08.
Now if your a non reloader what is a better choice if you want/need a variety of loadings?
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MCgunner
Member
It's NOT true that .270 is any weaker than .308 or .30-06. It will kill anything they will and it shoots a little flatter. It's got the same energy and carries it out to good range. The 06 has a little theoretical edge in that it can shoot the heavies, but then, modern controlled expansion bullets help even the playing field there.
I do reload and think anyone that doesn't is missing out on building the best ammo for their rifle at below bargain shelf ammo prices. But, I've been reloading since I was a kid, picked it up from my grandpa and uncle. I guess I'm in the "small minority", but most of my shooting friends around here reload and many of 'em are serious about it.
From the book "Extended Ballistics for the Advanced Rifleman" by Art Blatt, the .270 150 grain Federal hi shok soft point load produces 2850 fps/2705 ft lbs. It would probably be close to the 165 grain .30 cal bullets in sectional density, though I don't have those numbers in front of me. Compare to the .308, 150 grain hi shok soft point federal load at 2820 fps/2650 ft lbs or the very same bullet in Federal's .30-06 loading listed at 2910 fps, 2820 ft lbs. Tell me, do YOU see any significant difference in these numbers? All three are near identical and will kill the same game and the same ranges, maybe a little more holdover for the .30 cals with that bullet.
On the "bullet variety" thing, any gun is going to be best with a certain bullet weight. It is my understanding that accelerators are pretty inaccurate in most guns due to inadequate twist. The 220s in .30-06 would probably be a bit iffy, too. They'll shoot 130-200 grain weight or somewhere in there the best most times. If you wanna move up in bullet weight, best to move up to the .35 Whelen or get a caliber with a belt that exceeds .30.
TCB in TN
Member
Not theoretical, a real life, that has been and will continue to be used edge. Now modern bullet construction does help to make lighter bullet perform better than in days past, but that same construction holds true for the heavier bullets constructed today as well.
And for those individuals who do not reload the 06 is an option so that they can get milsurp ammo to be able to shoot at much reduced cost.
Now I have said it time and time again the three guns are almost identical in performance, recoil, trajectory, etc. For most folks they are so close as to be identical, or at least so close most folks wouldn't know the difference if shooting them blind folded, or w/o looking at the cartridge or barrel markings. So unless you are going to do a LOT of shooting, want to stock up with cheap ammo, go into competitive shooting or some other activity other than hunting a few whitetail every year, then pull the number out of the hat, look for the best deal on the gun you want and buy one.
MCgunner
Member
First off, the .30-06 has to stabilize a heavy bullet, it might, it might not. Second, my .308 will kill anything your .30-06 can kill and just as dead. There are loads of controlled expansion bullets for it and it works real well up to 180 grains. That's why I say "theoretical". In practice, there ain't nothin' the 06 can do the .308 can't. If you need heavier, you really need a magnum. So, I don't really consider the .30-06 in any way ballistically superior enough to the .308 to choose it over the short action, handier hunting rifle. and, a 170 grain .270 bullet will do anything a 200 grain .30 cal bullet will do at the same energy levels (better SD per given bullet weight). If I need more caliber than .30-06, I can get the same action length rifle in .338 Winchester Magnum. Then, I can take on those big Alaskan bears a little more securely. But, since I don't ever plan to hunt Alaska, I have all I really need in the .308. All three of these rounds will take anything in the lower 48. Ballistically, you can't really tell the difference and any difference is strictly superfluous and on paper.
TCB in TN
Member
While I have not shot heavy bullets a lot in the last few years, I grew up with the bigger is better mentality, and ran a lot of 220gr bullets through my old 30-06's over the years. Everything from my ole 1903 to my Ruger M77's, and Remmy 700's. Back in those days I considered 2 MOA to be acceptable accuracy and was usually able to achieve it out to 200yards, which was pretty much the longest shot I felt like I would have or take back then.
I agree and that is why I said that all are for the average person, wanting to hunt white tail, identical. BTW I currently shoot a Browning BLR in .308, I happen to love both the gun and the cal.
As someone who has killed big hogs with the .243, .270, and 30-06 I can honestly say that I have seen a difference in impact with bigger heavier bullets up close and personal. The 220's in the 06 can and has made a difference on some big hogs before.
I personally don't consider it ballistically superior enough either, but I don't consider the short action of the .308 in a bolt gun to be enough of an advantage either.
I agree that the average hunter/shooter will not be able to tell the difference. The only real advantages come for those who get VERY serious about their shooting, and even then the trade offs are marginal, except for the milsurp ammo market.
MCgunner
Member
I guess that's the one place I part ways. When I was younger, I didn't have a problem totin' a 9 lb long action 7 mag 10 miles a day in rough country spotting and stalking. Now days, it's enough I gotta tote my fat butt, let alone a heavy gun, LOL. Too, a shorter carbine is REAL handy in a stand or box blind, easy to keep from bumping stuff, get into action. I just prefer the rifle to a bigger gun and the thing shoots 3/4 to 1 MOA groups as far out as 400 yards. Not like I'm missing out on much accuracy with the soda straw barrel.
Really, when I decided I wanted this gun, I was gun shopping, not caliber shopping. I'd have been happy as a clam with a 7-08. .260 wasn't available, yet, but I think I'd preferred to wait on a .308 rather than get a .260. I have a short action .257 Roberts that's close enough to .260. For deer and hog, ANY of 'em is plenty, though. But, the .308 splits the difference between 7 mag and .257 in my little collection of hunting rifles.
Buddy of mine has a BLR in .308, has hunted with it since the mid 70s. Great gun! The BLR can be had in .325 WSM now. I've been reading about that one, friggin' cannon, LOL! If I walked and fished and hunted Alaska a lot, I might really want one of those things. I mean, a stainless Marlin guide gun in .45-70 would be pretty awesome and rugged up there, but that Browning is a sweet lever gun and that caliber pushes some big bullets to 4000 ft lbs. Pretty impressive. But, alas, I live in Texas, LOL! I've only seen griz in the zoo.
ReadyontheRight
Member
It's hard to define much of a difference between them. I like 30-06 and .308 just because you can buy cheap military surplus ammo for practice shooting and stockpiling for zombie attacks.
Shawnee
member
Hi Eli...
You write... "Remington loads six factory manunfactured bullet weights, seven if you want to count the 55 grain accelerator's, with a verity of bullets factory loaded for the good ol '06, five different weights for the 308, and a whopping two bullet weights each for the 260 or 7MM-08.
Now if your a non reloader what is a better choice if you want/need a variety of loadings?"
* It doesn't matter how many loads for the 30/06 are loaded by the factories. What matters is how many of those loads are stocked by the stores where the non-reloader goes to buy ammo Shooters don't buy ammo from the factories, - and as noted before - the stores don't stock but 2 or 3 different loads, rarely 4.
* And even if the store stocked four loadings for the '06 and two for the 7/08 and one for the 260 - it still doesn't matter one bit because ANY of the '06 loads and EITHER of the 7/08 loads And the .260 load will ALL drop an Elk or Deer or Hog or Bear in its' tracks.
Dead is Dead.
Reality is: the sacred "versatility" of the '06 is nothing but an absolutely meaningless "Huzzah" from people who cling to the outdated old 30/'06 for the sake of their tradition and feel threatened by anyone who doesn't worship at their shrine.
You write... "Remington loads six factory manunfactured bullet weights, seven if you want to count the 55 grain accelerator's, with a verity of bullets factory loaded for the good ol '06, five different weights for the 308, and a whopping two bullet weights each for the 260 or 7MM-08.
Now if your a non reloader what is a better choice if you want/need a variety of loadings?"
* It doesn't matter how many loads for the 30/06 are loaded by the factories. What matters is how many of those loads are stocked by the stores where the non-reloader goes to buy ammo Shooters don't buy ammo from the factories, - and as noted before - the stores don't stock but 2 or 3 different loads, rarely 4.
* And even if the store stocked four loadings for the '06 and two for the 7/08 and one for the 260 - it still doesn't matter one bit because ANY of the '06 loads and EITHER of the 7/08 loads And the .260 load will ALL drop an Elk or Deer or Hog or Bear in its' tracks.
Dead is Dead.
Reality is: the sacred "versatility" of the '06 is nothing but an absolutely meaningless "Huzzah" from people who cling to the outdated old 30/'06 for the sake of their tradition and feel threatened by anyone who doesn't worship at their shrine.
MCgunner
Member
When I got my .308, I bought 100 rounds of surplus brass from Midway for what 20 rounds of commercial cost. Last time I checked, they didn't show any mil surp brass. I'm wondering if the war is drying up supplies somehow? Looks like to ME, mil surp brass should be as available as ever, but I really don't understand that market much. I wanna score some in the future, though. I'll be attending gun shows and such, might find some at a gun show and it's cheaper than buying a gun.
I mean, you go to a gun show, ya gotta buy SOMEthing! I've gotten REAL in love with reloading .308. I just whip 'em out with a volume measure for the powder, don't bother sorting brass or bullets, don't worry about milsurp brass. Yet, I get sub MOA out of it. Amazing.Outdated???? I'm just gonna sit back and watch this one.
TCB in TN
Member
And this comes from the person who says that the .270 has significantly less recoil, and significantly better performance than the 30-06!
Some folks just never let anything like the facts/reality get in the way of a good story.
The truth is that most folks on here realize that the three cals are pretty much interchangeable, for most applications!
What's wrong with "tradition" and why is a 06 "outdated"?
Something doesn't become numero uno, be the standard nearly all are compared to, and stay there for decades on end for no reason.
I kinda like outdated stuff. My land Cruiser is a '65 model, my motorcycle is the "Heritage" model, last elk I killed was with a black powder muzzle loader. What did you shoot your last elk with?
Always kinda wanted a 45-70 and after reading some of whats been written here lately I am just dieing to get my hands on one, probably a single shot too. Some new super short mega mag doesn't interest me in the least, not that it isn't a great round either.
Most of my firearms are "outdated" levers, and bolt rifles or single action hand guns. Owned newer stuff, still have some and some is great, it's just for the most part not my thing. I like blue steel and walnut, not the new products guns are being made with today. Not debating which is best either, best to me isn't best to others.
So lets not let any facts or things get in the way, lets go forward and do our own thing, let me live in the past with facts, and you can have your dreams too, but when a fella is here searching for answers it kinda nice to give him facts and let him decide, not feed em distorted partial truths.
OBTW, shrines, threatened? gezzz
Something doesn't become numero uno, be the standard nearly all are compared to, and stay there for decades on end for no reason.
I kinda like outdated stuff. My land Cruiser is a '65 model, my motorcycle is the "Heritage" model, last elk I killed was with a black powder muzzle loader. What did you shoot your last elk with?
Always kinda wanted a 45-70 and after reading some of whats been written here lately I am just dieing to get my hands on one, probably a single shot too. Some new super short mega mag doesn't interest me in the least, not that it isn't a great round either.
Most of my firearms are "outdated" levers, and bolt rifles or single action hand guns. Owned newer stuff, still have some and some is great, it's just for the most part not my thing. I like blue steel and walnut, not the new products guns are being made with today. Not debating which is best either, best to me isn't best to others.
So lets not let any facts or things get in the way, lets go forward and do our own thing, let me live in the past with facts, and you can have your dreams too, but when a fella is here searching for answers it kinda nice to give him facts and let him decide, not feed em distorted partial truths.
OBTW, shrines, threatened? gezzz
George Hill
Member
Let's look at some figures here and sort this out:
Muzzle, 100 yards, 200 yards, 300 yards, 400 yards, 500 yards. Velocity/Energy
.270 Winchester 130 grain interbond:
3060/2702 2851/2345 2651/2028 2460/1746 2277/1496 2101/1275
.308 150 grain:
2820/2648 2560/2183 2315/1785 2084/1446 1866/1159 1664/922
.30-06 150 interbond:
2910/2820 2686/2403 2473/2037 2270/1716 2077/1436 1893/1193
These are of course all light for caliber loads... bullets you might use for Speed Goats or other plains game. I've used all three in the last few months, and all are accurate.
Just for fun, here's the .270 in 150 grain, which is heavy for the caliber but the same weight as the .30 cal loads:
2840/2686 2642/2324 2452/2002 2270/1716 2095/1462 1929/1239
This isn't quite fair because the .270 load at that weight is longer than the .30's and have a better ballistic coefficient. But that's not my point. You see that in every case, the .308 is handicapped with serious velocity and energy discount from the bigger cased cartridges.
I know the .308 is hugely popular, but I don't understand why. I see reasons for this... such as servicemen who compare it to the .223 and see it as a big jump. Because it is from the varmint round. But when you compare it to other calibers used by hunters to kill big game at large range, well, it falls short. The .308 is just completely average. It gets a "C" grade. If you want a serious .30, then get a .300 Win Mag. But that's neither here nor there.
If you base popularity based on gross ammunition sales, it breaks down like this:
1. .30-06 Springfield
2. .270 Winchester
3. .30-30
4. .243 Winchester
5. .308
7MM Rem Mag comes in at a very close #6.... Anyways. I find it very interesting that the .30-30 trumps the .308 in sales volume... but it does so at a pretty good margin. Now when it comes to actual effectiveness in the field, what these cartridges can do in the hands of a skilled hunter, I really don't see much of a difference between them. I've killed an elk at 200 yards with my short 16" .30-30, and it slayed it dead right there. I've also seen the .30-06 fail at the same range.
The effectiveness if you are going to come down to brass tacks is all about the bullet and not the container that holds the powder charge.... and where you vector that bullet through the target critter. That vector has to intersect vitals. If you can't do that, it doesn't matter what you shoot.
Muzzle, 100 yards, 200 yards, 300 yards, 400 yards, 500 yards. Velocity/Energy
.270 Winchester 130 grain interbond:
3060/2702 2851/2345 2651/2028 2460/1746 2277/1496 2101/1275
.308 150 grain:
2820/2648 2560/2183 2315/1785 2084/1446 1866/1159 1664/922
.30-06 150 interbond:
2910/2820 2686/2403 2473/2037 2270/1716 2077/1436 1893/1193
These are of course all light for caliber loads... bullets you might use for Speed Goats or other plains game. I've used all three in the last few months, and all are accurate.
Just for fun, here's the .270 in 150 grain, which is heavy for the caliber but the same weight as the .30 cal loads:
2840/2686 2642/2324 2452/2002 2270/1716 2095/1462 1929/1239
This isn't quite fair because the .270 load at that weight is longer than the .30's and have a better ballistic coefficient. But that's not my point. You see that in every case, the .308 is handicapped with serious velocity and energy discount from the bigger cased cartridges.
I know the .308 is hugely popular, but I don't understand why. I see reasons for this... such as servicemen who compare it to the .223 and see it as a big jump. Because it is from the varmint round. But when you compare it to other calibers used by hunters to kill big game at large range, well, it falls short. The .308 is just completely average. It gets a "C" grade. If you want a serious .30, then get a .300 Win Mag. But that's neither here nor there.
If you base popularity based on gross ammunition sales, it breaks down like this:
1. .30-06 Springfield
2. .270 Winchester
3. .30-30
4. .243 Winchester
5. .308
7MM Rem Mag comes in at a very close #6.... Anyways. I find it very interesting that the .30-30 trumps the .308 in sales volume... but it does so at a pretty good margin. Now when it comes to actual effectiveness in the field, what these cartridges can do in the hands of a skilled hunter, I really don't see much of a difference between them. I've killed an elk at 200 yards with my short 16" .30-30, and it slayed it dead right there. I've also seen the .30-06 fail at the same range.
The effectiveness if you are going to come down to brass tacks is all about the bullet and not the container that holds the powder charge.... and where you vector that bullet through the target critter. That vector has to intersect vitals. If you can't do that, it doesn't matter what you shoot.
MCgunner
Member
2800 fps from a 150 grain bullet is plenty to 400 yards on deer and 300 yards on elk. My own Barnes 140 load (a bullet that will outperform about anything else and performs more like a 180 standard lead bullet) starts out a 2822 fps. Calculated with a BC of .398, it retains 2188 fps/1487 ft lbs at 300 yards, 1996 fps/1239 ft lbs at 400 yards. That's about as far as I'd contemplate shooting at game with any caliber and good enough for the game I hunt and elk which I've never hunted. I do have a 7 mag, but if I ever get to hunt elk in New Mexico, I'm probably going to want my light weight short action gun for those mountains. It's plenty enough and there ain't a thing a naught six or .270 can kill that I can't kill with the .308 right out to 400 yards.
Now, as far as the .30-30 goes, it's popular because LOTS AND LOTS of hunters can't shoot past 150 anyway. Many think 100 yards is a long shot. Many hunt in areas where they never see a whitetail past 50. The .30-30 will kill any deer just as dead at 100 yards as a .308. I like the versatility of the .308, though, since I have hunted and will hunt in the future out west in West Texas and New Mexico. Hopefully, I'll get to go after something bigger than a mulie some day.
You can HUNT elk with a .30-30, but despite the popularity of the cartridge/gun, it's not really popular in the hands of elk hunters for a reason. Also, the lever guns the round is chambered in sell the round far more than do ballistics. I submit that my little stainless Remington M7 is just as handy in a stand, still hunting, or spot and stalking in the mountains and desert as any .30-30 with a scope on it. It has a 20" barrel, is 6.5 lbs sans scope, and shoots sub MOA to 300 yards and more. That's why I like the .308, the gun I have chambered for it. If I had to tote a heavy long action gun romping around the rough country anyway, I'd just take my 7 mag. Why bother with a .270 or .30-06 unless you're scared of the recoil. You scared? I've fired 40 rounds off the bench before with the 7 and it never really hurt me. I ain't scared. I've fired a LOT worse!K3
Member
I may be piling on here, but I love when people say a caliber/cartridge is outdated. Above, a poster referred to the .30-06 as outdated.
Does it no longer kill deer or elk? Is it incapable of MOA accuracy at hunting ranges with good loads?
Evidently marketing people are very good at what they do to convince people that cartridges that have worked for a century are outdated. Is the .45-70 outdated? It's increasing in popularity again. Is 405gr leaving the muzzle at 1400fps or higher depending on the platform not going to kill a deer at 100 yards?
Does it no longer kill deer or elk? Is it incapable of MOA accuracy at hunting ranges with good loads?
Evidently marketing people are very good at what they do to convince people that cartridges that have worked for a century are outdated. Is the .45-70 outdated? It's increasing in popularity again. Is 405gr leaving the muzzle at 1400fps or higher depending on the platform not going to kill a deer at 100 yards?
Shawnee
member
"...numero uno, be the standard nearly all are compared to, and stay there for decades on end "
Not ! A few million smart people simply don't sing from that old Hymnal.
Hi George...
I think the "popularity" of the 30/30 is in large part because for decades the lever-action 30/30s and their ammo were signifciantly cheaper than most bolt guns and ammo for more modern calibers. They still are but, I think, to somewhat lesser degree. Also, they have long been packaged with scopes as "Specials" at Wallyworld etc. in many areas.
If you're in S. Texas (and many other places) a couple weekends before deer season opens the stores will all be running "sales specials" on lever-action 30/30s and you'll see trainloads of people show up at the puiblic shooting ranges with such guns.
When the rifle costs 70% (or less) of anything else in the store and ditto for the ammo it turns a LOT of "first-time" or "casual" hunters into 30/30 owners.
Hi K3...
"Does it no longer kill deer or elk?"
Of course the 30/06 will still kill Deer and Elk. I didn't say it wouldn't. But so will a 50-caliber machine gun, and a bulldozer, and an F-16 loaded with Napalm. Do you recommend using those ?
The 30/06 is outdated (IMNSHO) because there are many calibers that will cleanly harvest all those same Deer and Elk and yet be much more user-friendly (less blast and recoil, and sometimes less expense) than the 30/06. Since a more user-friendly weapon equates to a rifle more shooters can handle well, and better - such weapons are better than bigger, less-user-friendly calibers.
If someone wants to use a 30/06 (or an F-16 loaded with Napalm) - Fine. But all this narrow-minded knuckleheaded "advice" about how everyone "needs" a 30/06 and it is so much better than anything else blah, blah, blah is absolute, unadulterated, 24k, antiquated, hilarious military-macho horse mustard.
Not ! A few million smart people simply don't sing from that old Hymnal.
Hi George...
I think the "popularity" of the 30/30 is in large part because for decades the lever-action 30/30s and their ammo were signifciantly cheaper than most bolt guns and ammo for more modern calibers. They still are but, I think, to somewhat lesser degree. Also, they have long been packaged with scopes as "Specials" at Wallyworld etc. in many areas.
If you're in S. Texas (and many other places) a couple weekends before deer season opens the stores will all be running "sales specials" on lever-action 30/30s and you'll see trainloads of people show up at the puiblic shooting ranges with such guns.
When the rifle costs 70% (or less) of anything else in the store and ditto for the ammo it turns a LOT of "first-time" or "casual" hunters into 30/30 owners.
Hi K3...
"Does it no longer kill deer or elk?"
Of course the 30/06 will still kill Deer and Elk. I didn't say it wouldn't. But so will a 50-caliber machine gun, and a bulldozer, and an F-16 loaded with Napalm. Do you recommend using those ?
The 30/06 is outdated (IMNSHO) because there are many calibers that will cleanly harvest all those same Deer and Elk and yet be much more user-friendly (less blast and recoil, and sometimes less expense) than the 30/06. Since a more user-friendly weapon equates to a rifle more shooters can handle well, and better - such weapons are better than bigger, less-user-friendly calibers.
If someone wants to use a 30/06 (or an F-16 loaded with Napalm) - Fine. But all this narrow-minded knuckleheaded "advice" about how everyone "needs" a 30/06 and it is so much better than anything else blah, blah, blah is absolute, unadulterated, 24k, antiquated, hilarious military-macho horse mustard.
TCB in TN
Member
You keep popping off with this junk about how the 30-06 has such an increased amount of recoil and blast than the .270, but I have even ran the numbers out of the same gun, (and if you don't like my numbers look them up or run them yourself) using the 130 and 150 gr bullets respectively that show the .270win .308, and 30-06 all between 16 and 17 1/2 ftlbs of recoil. The .308 came in at 16, the .270 win came in at 16 1/2 and the 30-06 came in at 17 1/2 (a whopping 5 1/5% increase over the .270 while the .270 is actually greater than the .308 by 3.1% while the .308 comes in a nice quick handling short action).
As for the the blast, well you are going to have to show me, I know several folks that still shoot both (as I have) that say, that they can't tell the diff in the amount of noise. I personally have owned and shot both (out of the same platform) and cannot tell the difference. I personally LOVE the .270, it the .308 and the 30-06 are great cals that can pretty much do anything you want to out in the REAL world. But when folks talk about
you need to put down some actual facts to back up your smack talk!
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