Robbins290
Member
+1 for 270 winchester
.270 or .308?
- Thread starter HikerHunterChad
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The .270 is the one for me.
I got a Winchester model 70 in .270 30 years ago and I still swear by it. On what you are looking to hunt the .270 will do it quite well.I hope that you reload because if you do you can really work the .270 up to a great load.As for surplus ammo in .308 or any other caliber you can I have it, I'll reload my own and when need be I'll by reputable factory ammo.
I got a Winchester model 70 in .270 30 years ago and I still swear by it. On what you are looking to hunt the .270 will do it quite well.I hope that you reload because if you do you can really work the .270 up to a great load.As for surplus ammo in .308 or any other caliber you can I have it, I'll reload my own and when need be I'll by reputable factory ammo.
HikerHunterChad
Member
Thanks for all the great info from everyone. It seems that whenever I have a question about choice of round, (previously over hand gun rounds and now over rifle rounds) folks always mention reloading. If I reloaded that would definitely eliminate much of my concern over availability and cost of ammo. But alas, I am a family man on a budget and a reloading operation is for NEXT year's tax return negotiations with the wife.
A quick look on chearperthandirt.com revealed that they have a total of 124 different options for the .270 ammo. The cheapest box of 20 rnds sells for $16.24 and their most expensive sells for $43.59. The same online supplier has 256 options for .308/7.62X51 with the cheapest selling at $6.61 for a box of 20 rnds and the most expensive selling for $66.69. Granted, the $6 boxes are mostly stuff like Tula Ammo. Since I do not reload (yet) it looks like .308 has a larger and more diverse over-the-counter availability. For me to go w/ the .270 instead of the .308, I would need to perceive some amazing advantages of the .270 round itself to outweigh the availability of ammo in the .308.
As far as using one of these rounds for groundhogs, I do agree that either one is overkill. However, as I stated earlier, I don't mind that since we do not eat them. I have always had my eye on the .243 for varmint hunting, but right now I need to get a rifle that has a wide range of ammo available cheap for target shooting as well as high-performing loads for hunting.
I did take note of the lower recoil of the .270 which is a factor if I'm going to be target shooting. A couple people said that you can get hot loads in .270 that will match a light magnum load.
The jury is still out for me until the tax return comes in and I make the final decision on a gun. Keep the commentaries coming. I do appreciate the input.
A quick look on chearperthandirt.com revealed that they have a total of 124 different options for the .270 ammo. The cheapest box of 20 rnds sells for $16.24 and their most expensive sells for $43.59. The same online supplier has 256 options for .308/7.62X51 with the cheapest selling at $6.61 for a box of 20 rnds and the most expensive selling for $66.69. Granted, the $6 boxes are mostly stuff like Tula Ammo. Since I do not reload (yet) it looks like .308 has a larger and more diverse over-the-counter availability. For me to go w/ the .270 instead of the .308, I would need to perceive some amazing advantages of the .270 round itself to outweigh the availability of ammo in the .308.
As far as using one of these rounds for groundhogs, I do agree that either one is overkill. However, as I stated earlier, I don't mind that since we do not eat them. I have always had my eye on the .243 for varmint hunting, but right now I need to get a rifle that has a wide range of ammo available cheap for target shooting as well as high-performing loads for hunting.
I did take note of the lower recoil of the .270 which is a factor if I'm going to be target shooting. A couple people said that you can get hot loads in .270 that will match a light magnum load.
The jury is still out for me until the tax return comes in and I make the final decision on a gun. Keep the commentaries coming. I do appreciate the input.
kaferhaus
Member
"cheap" ammo has it's place in "cheap" mil surp type rifles or 'shoot em up" guns. "Target shooting" implies accurate shooting. You're not going to get that out of any milsurp or commie bloc ammo. Some of the "cheap" ammo like that from privi partisan CAN be accurate. I'd use that as my bottom dollar ammo were I you.
Yes indeed there is a much higher selection of 308 ammo. Mostly due to tactical or the above mentioned shoot em up ammo. Once you toss that crap aside, the choices narrow down to be about equal to the 270 offerings.
I still say save yourself a ton of aggravation and buy a .243. It's much better suited to what you want to do and the "cheap" prive partisan type ammo is available for it as well.
Yes indeed there is a much higher selection of 308 ammo. Mostly due to tactical or the above mentioned shoot em up ammo. Once you toss that crap aside, the choices narrow down to be about equal to the 270 offerings.
I still say save yourself a ton of aggravation and buy a .243. It's much better suited to what you want to do and the "cheap" prive partisan type ammo is available for it as well.
XxBulletBendeRXx
Member
I say .308 as well.... More ammo choices and more reloading/ballistic data readily available as mentioned by the previous posts... If you can get a .308 and a matching rifle in .223 for the groundhog work. .223 ammo is waaay cheaper than 308 for a day of shooting. But If Only one rifle is the option, a .308 is the one hitter quitter for bigger animals and it will give you one heck of a red mist on those groundhogs.....
marineimaging
Member
Jut my personal opition but knowing that a .22 magnum in the head can kill hogs up to 100lbs at about 50 yards, then you can work up from there which opens a very wide door. The question is more about your personal choices. Carry a .30-06 BAR all day and you'll wish for something lighter. Hit a hog with too light a round, or too fast so that it doesn't do it's job and you'll be wishing you had a heavier bullet. I've carried a 9mm carbine but after seeing a 150 pounder run off with virtually no penetration in the tough armor hide I personallydon't go into the brush anymore with less than a .308 Saiga for several reasons. Less chance of deflection by twigs and secondly, when I hit them I want a one shot kill. If the smaller caliber rnds. are used too closely they will fly right through the animal without tumbling or expanding. The larger the round the more potential for hydraulic shock doing a job on them if you happen to be too close.
)Kachok
Member
There is something to be said for heavier 30cal pills when very large game is in the picture, but on deer sized game they would never know the difference between the two. 270 shoots a little flatter, the 308 is a tad more compact/efficient both get my personal stamp of approval.
mdauben
Member
Honestly, I think 124 different choices of ammo should be enough to meet anyone's need. I don't see that doubling that number really has any true benefit to the shooter.
As others have said, most of the truly cheap ammo isn't suited for quality target practice or hunting, so unless you are just looking to shoot pop cans and overipe fruit there's not much use for it (and if you are, there are probably better choices than a .308 bolt action). Do you really foresee shooting this rifle so much, that a couple bucks a box of ammo is going to add up to all that much in a year? I can see it in ammo for a mil-style semiauto, but in a bolt-action hunting rifle?
As always, YMMV, but I'm just saying, what you posted above doesn't really strike me as any reason to choice the .308 over the .270.
Fullboar1
Member
I dont know how you got the 308 has alot more recoil then the 270. From experiance shooting the same gun Tikka T3 Lite the 308 with 150 grain ammo has about the same kick as a 270 shooting a 130 grain bullet (I couldn't tell the difference). Sure the 270 shoots a little flatter then the 308 but you will probably get twice as much use with a 308 then a 270 before you have to replace the barrel also to get the most out of the 270 you will probably need a 24" barrel where a 308 doesnt lose as much % of velocity going to a 22" barrel (not that the 2" worries me but some people it does). I have owned both and will always own a 308 and would probably get a 280 long before I got a 270 or a 30-06 (but I reload). If you cant decide between a 308 and a 270 then just buy both and sell the one you least like or keep the one you like better.
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
I bought a Winchester M-70 Heavy Barrel Varmint in .308 specifically to hunt groundhogs. It works well, but like others I reload - using Hornady V-max's for it. You can buy those in .308 loaded but not .270.
You can get some really basic, starting equipment you need to reload for about $150.00.
You aren't going to find many precision rifles chambered in .270. 30-06 and .308 you'll find plenty. Unless you want to expand your choice of caliber I'd suggest that .308. You'll find it offered in a dizzying array of options from rifle manufacturers. And it'll perform well with very little work by the reloader.
You can get some really basic, starting equipment you need to reload for about $150.00.
You aren't going to find many precision rifles chambered in .270. 30-06 and .308 you'll find plenty. Unless you want to expand your choice of caliber I'd suggest that .308. You'll find it offered in a dizzying array of options from rifle manufacturers. And it'll perform well with very little work by the reloader.
HikerHunterChad
Member
Reloading
BullfrogKen,
How do I get basic reload equipment for $150? I have seen reloading operations (expensive ones) in operation but have never reloaded for myself. What do I NEED in order to get started at such a low cost? I imagine much of it is by manual process rather than the nifty carrousel operations I've seen in friends' garages.
Chad
BullfrogKen,
How do I get basic reload equipment for $150? I have seen reloading operations (expensive ones) in operation but have never reloaded for myself. What do I NEED in order to get started at such a low cost? I imagine much of it is by manual process rather than the nifty carrousel operations I've seen in friends' garages.
Chad
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
Hey, you have friends that reload? That's good news! They can help you out.
What you've probably seen are progressives presses. You certainly don't need those to load up your rounds. A single stage is more appropriate for your needs, and less costly.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/650614/lee-breech-lock-hand-press-kit
Lee's hand press is probably the least expensive press. I still use my hand press for lots of stuff, like just de-priming brass in front of the television. The kit in the link provides a priming system. Slow, but it works. If you go this route you'll still need a powder scale, a way to measure powder, and dies of course. But this is bare minimum.
The old Lee Anniversay kit -
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/42...reech-lock-single-stage-press-anniversary-kit
This is an old standby for new reloaders. I started on it and used it exclusively for a few years; it was all I had. In time upgraded my scale and powder measure, but I still have the press and it works well enough for needs like yours. The whole kit here would get you started for $100.00.
Add a set of dies for about $30.00 -
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/538030/lee-pacesetter-3-die-set-308-winchester
And you're in business.
What you've probably seen are progressives presses. You certainly don't need those to load up your rounds. A single stage is more appropriate for your needs, and less costly.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/650614/lee-breech-lock-hand-press-kit
Lee's hand press is probably the least expensive press. I still use my hand press for lots of stuff, like just de-priming brass in front of the television. The kit in the link provides a priming system. Slow, but it works. If you go this route you'll still need a powder scale, a way to measure powder, and dies of course. But this is bare minimum.
The old Lee Anniversay kit -
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/42...reech-lock-single-stage-press-anniversary-kit
This is an old standby for new reloaders. I started on it and used it exclusively for a few years; it was all I had. In time upgraded my scale and powder measure, but I still have the press and it works well enough for needs like yours. The whole kit here would get you started for $100.00.
Add a set of dies for about $30.00 -
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/538030/lee-pacesetter-3-die-set-308-winchester
And you're in business.
O yes, the .270 will reach out there a little bit farther & get there a little quicker with more THUMP.............
TwoEyedJack
Member
Having tons of choices is over-rated. Let's say you bought a box of each .308 offered on CTD. Further, let's say that the average is a buck a round. Your grand total would be $5,120 plus shipping. Are you really going to spend that? I don't think so. More likely you are going to buy rounds for a specific purpose. Let's say you are going deer hunting. You'll likely go to the LGS and buy a box of Remington Core Lokt, shoot them at targets, be happy with the accuracy, and use them. Does it matter if there are thirty alternates in .270 and thirty one alternates in .308? Not one bit.
Now if you were talking about an oddball caliber like .303 British, then that is a different story. Any "mainstream" caliber has enough options.
BoilerUP
Member
While 308 Win is a fine sporting round...
Anybody who has "ammo availability in SHTF situations" anywhere close to the top of their priorities in selecting a hunting rifle needs their head examined.
Yeah, there's all kinds of M118LR sitting around waiting to be 'liberated' by folks using a 308 deer rifle to defend themselves against zombies/aliens/Cuban & Guatemalan infiltrators.
I'd recommend 243 or 7mm-08 for the OP; may not be quite as common as 270/308/30-06 but I've never seen a store that sold the last three that didn't also sell the first two.
Anybody who has "ammo availability in SHTF situations" anywhere close to the top of their priorities in selecting a hunting rifle needs their head examined.
Yeah, there's all kinds of M118LR sitting around waiting to be 'liberated' by folks using a 308 deer rifle to defend themselves against zombies/aliens/Cuban & Guatemalan infiltrators.
I'd recommend 243 or 7mm-08 for the OP; may not be quite as common as 270/308/30-06 but I've never seen a store that sold the last three that didn't also sell the first two.
Ignoring your 2 options, why is 30.06 omitted? It's a better calibre than either of the 2 you are debating. Yes, the .270 is flatter-at short ranges-because it uses lighter bullets at higher velocity. I was just by Academy here in Texas, and simply could justify no other calibre as being superior, at least for most needs. If you want to throw out 300 gr bullets then .338 will do it. Sure is expensive, though. Hornady has excellent 30.06 loads - 150, 165 gr - for $26.99. 180 grain is even better ballistically and that gets you up to big game, IMO, and Lapua has a great 200 gr 30.06 bullet. The 150 grain is a little heavy for some uses, but not outrageously so. But if you want heavier bullet capability, and much flatter big bullets than the .270 150 gr, which is the heaviest bullet Hornady even shows, than 30.06 wins in a landslide. 30.06 also has a 100 grain bullet available, same as .270, but not quite as good BC, but who cares for shortish ranges? Hornady also has a 200+ grain hunting bullet with great BC and a 225 gr BTHP match that way outclasses anything in .270.
The new Lapua .308 Palma does put you to a decision point regarding increased accuracy, but if someone converts 30.06 to small primer, and why wouldn't they, it's the clear winner again. Understand that the .308 winchester is just a shorter cased 30.06 with less powder capacity and no benefits.
The new Lapua .308 Palma does put you to a decision point regarding increased accuracy, but if someone converts 30.06 to small primer, and why wouldn't they, it's the clear winner again. Understand that the .308 winchester is just a shorter cased 30.06 with less powder capacity and no benefits.
H2oPumper
Member
Really, it probably makes no difference what you choose for being a flat shooter. If you zero at 300 yards, the trajectory variance between the two is only 1.5" up to 350 yards. When it comes to wind effect and energy, the 270 will outperform the 308. I based this on 130gr .270's and 150gr .308's. The 270 may be a bit more susceptible to the bullet fragmenting do to the velocity increase, essentially though, It's a non issue when comparing these two calibers. The 308 is a great caliber, but the 270 can beat it, if you can, which is more critical than the caliber.
As far as the ammo, I start cheap and build my way up if needed. Also, I bring the 22 to the range to get myself accustomed to positioning and trigger pull.
As far as the ammo, I start cheap and build my way up if needed. Also, I bring the 22 to the range to get myself accustomed to positioning and trigger pull.
HikerHunterChad
Member
JimboIHN: I did consider 30-06 before posting this discussion, but I have read and was told by more experienced shooters than myself that the .308 is more accurate at range than the 30-06 is and that the .270 is flatter shooting than the .308.
BoilerUP: No zombie worries here. Thanks for the suggestions. .243 is a bit lighter than what I 'm looking for, but I've had 7mm-08 suggested to me as well. I may look into that.
Chad
BoilerUP: No zombie worries here. Thanks for the suggestions. .243 is a bit lighter than what I 'm looking for, but I've had 7mm-08 suggested to me as well. I may look into that.
Chad
BoilerUP
Member
You absolutely will not be handicapped in the accuracy department with a 30-06.
The average shooter, or even an above average shooter, will not be able to tell one iota of difference in accuracy between the '06 or the 308 and a game animal certainly won't. The very best benchrest shooters *might* be able to see a slight difference in scores between the two.
lloveless
Member
What a hoot. The .270 kicks lighter than a .308, a.243 has a lighter kick than.....A .270 is a necked down 30/06 which means same case capacity and a higher pressure. .243 is a necked down .308. The 30/06 is no slouch at long ranges and is much more versatile than the .270 or .308 due to case capacity and the vast numbers of projectiles available as loaded ammo. Good luck with your quest, and let us know which you choose just for giggles.
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Mike1234567
member
I wasn't going to chime in but since others mentioned .30-06 then I will too. IMHO, and this is only through research with no practical experience, I'd opt for .30-06 also because it seems to be the most versatile of them all especially when ammunition availability/diversity is also factored in. That stated, there's not much difference between .308 Win/.243 Win or .270 Win/.30-06 Sprg. It's like splitting hairs.
I've learned something here! So you can shoot those light. 308's for varmint work, and it must not be too bad on the shoulder. Glad i picked the 308!
I found my .308 by going to the gun show and looking for the right rifle in. 270,.308, or. 30-06. I decided any of those calibers would be fine, and then bought a really nice rifle that was calling my name. I'm glad I did it that way.
I found my .308 by going to the gun show and looking for the right rifle in. 270,.308, or. 30-06. I decided any of those calibers would be fine, and then bought a really nice rifle that was calling my name. I'm glad I did it that way.
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