.308 vs. .270

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Don't regret a 270win. I love them dearly and if you regret yours I will be tempted to give it a loving home :) They are amongst the most versitle and useful of all rifle calibers. Right up there with the 6.5x55, 270WSM and 30-06 in my book. Mild mannerd, shoots as flat as a 7mm Rem mag, drops pronghorn, deer, and elk with an authority, what is not to love? 308s are further down the list for me, they have the mild manners but lack the trajectory, although being a handloader I do admire the efficency of the short action case.
 
I have 14 various calibers of centerfire rifles in my safe. Anywhere from a .22-250 through .375 h&h. If I had to choose one to handle anything and everything it would be the .270 winchester. No question at all I am a hunter not a target shooter. Yet the .270 is plenty accurate for most target shooting IMHO.
 
Casefull said:
You sound like a guy who is recoil challenged...most of your conclusions are not true. I hunt and shoot long range with 3 of the calibers you mention. Nothing wrong with .270...you can always let your wife and sons use it for their first rifle.
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I am not recoil challenged. My learned to shoot with a 7mm rem mag. I like low recoil rifles that do the job of harder kicking rifles sure, but I can handle 3" magnum slugs from my featherweight 12 ga all day long, and those technicaly kick harder then a 375 H&H. Now I did have a magnum that left me black and blue but it did that to everyone that shot it. BTW my calculations are correct I did in fact run them through my ballistics calculator, PM me if you would like to see the results.
 
I readily admit I'm "recoil challenged", which is why I prefer the 260 to my 270, 30-06, or 7mmRM.

They all kill deer dead, one just costs less to reload and is easier on my shoulder than the others.
 
when the SHTF with the M&M problem (muslims and illegal mexican) the more common .308 will be the way to go, the time is coming. get to basics and be prepared.
 
Has anyone here ever lost a deer shot through the boiler room with a quality 6.5mm bullet? Anyone? I have never had one run more then a few feet. Same is true with my .270cal, and 7mms. All can be DRT effective with quality bullets and good shot placement. I have to agree with Chuck Hawks on this one, the 7-08, 260 rem, and 6.5x55 are all you ever need to quickly drop any deer. Funny all of those calibers are very well reguarded for accuracy as well.
I do agree with TX308 on the 308 being a slightly better "revolution" rifle since they can shoot military 7.62X51 NATO ammo, but I hope we can avoid that day coming. I just wish there was a political part that represented us true conserviteves. Kick out all of the illigals and anyone that would destroy the American way of life.
 
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The OP asked about .270 vs .308 in regards to competition, not dropping deer or SHTF. The .308 would have the advantage in regards to bullet selection. A 6 or 6.5 mm chambering would have some advantage over both. Addressing the class structure of specific competitions needs to be considered. Other practical considerations should be considered as well. As a newbie to competition sticking with a caliber that is ubiquitous in the discipline is a good choice.
 
Don't regret a 270win. I love them dearly and if you regret yours I will be tempted to give it a loving home They are amongst the most versitle and useful of all rifle calibers. Right up there with the 6.5x55, 270WSM and 30-06 in my book. Mild mannerd, shoots as flat as a 7mm Rem mag, drops pronghorn, deer, and elk with an authority, what is not to love? 308s are further down the list for me, they have the mild manners but lack the trajectory, although being a handloader I do admire the efficency of the short action case.
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I hear ya! For hunting purposes I'd take a .270 over a .308 any day. For shooting targets I'd take the .308. I was never a fan of the .308 until I got one. Mine is used for target shooting and that's all.

But I'm more of a hunter so the .308 spends a lot of time sitting in the safe.

Never owned a .270 but I'd love to have one. When I bought my first centerfire rifle, a Remington 700 VS I asked if it was available in .270, it wasn't. It was however available in .25-06, another great round. Maybe some day I'll have the pleasure of owning a .270, I can only hope.
 
Most people will feel the challenge of recoil in target shooting where you might shoot 20 rounds (plus sighters), take a break while the guy on the next relay shoots, do it again, move to the pits to pull targets for a while, then come back and shoot some more.
This is one reason the 140 gr 6.5mm in any of a number of chambers is at present more popular than a 190 gr (or heavier) .300 Magnum. Some folks are even shooting 107 gr 6mms. I have also heard of a small movement back to 7mm for the high BC 168 gr .284" bullet, though.
 
Resons to go with the 270. Higher speeds don't just help with trajectory, they also make a mess of vital organs with rapid expansion bullets. While I don't totaly agree with the "speed kills" guys I will say that in my experence it helps with quick kills on thin skinned game. Better deer caliber.
Resons to go 308. Short action, efficient, larger caliber/heavier/slower bullet makes deeper more consistant wound tracts given similar bullet construction. Better elk caliber.
What about the 30-06? If can push 165gr bullets over 3000fps (handloads) giving it a trajectory close to the 270, it can also shoot any bullet the 308 can + the 200, 220 and 240gr bullets for even larger game. The only downside are long action, and increased recoil across the board.
 
In this article I have a section on cartridge selection for practical long-range/field shooting. Since you discuss wind and drop this puts us into the realm of mid/long range shooting.

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article | Practical Long-Range Rifle Shooting, Part I - Rifle & Equipment extwh3.png

We've also had a bunch of discussions about the various cartridges and calibers for long range and competition shooting.

The primary problem with .270 is that there is a distinct lack of high BC bullets available for it. If you step down to the 6.5-06 you get a ton of great LR bullet choices, and same if you step up to the .280 Remington (ie 7mm-06), both on the same parent case. So if you go to a .30-06 sized action, you're leaving a lot of performance on the table by using .270.

For starting long-range shooters who want to be serious about it, I recommend .260 if they do reload, and .308 if they do not.
 
308 will actually be affected by wind more as the bullet has more surface area for which the wind to "blow" on. .270 has a much more advantageous ballistic coefficient.

so unless youre shooting elk and moose at less than 300 yds, in my opinion the .270 is a better round. and it can still easily kill a moose. in most states i believe it is a legal big game caliber so nothin to worry about.
 
308 will actually be affected by wind more as the bullet has more surface area for which the wind to "blow" on.
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That's not how it works. Wind drift is primarily a function of BC, with velocity second.
.270 has a much more advantageous ballistic coefficient.
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Nope. As an exercise, find all the .270 bullets that have a BC over 0.5. Repeat the exercise for .30 caliber.
 
**** youre right. ive only really looked at BCs for bullets in 6.5 or 7mm. which would be .260 or .280. and those bullets do tend to have good BCs.

my bad for assuming .270 would be in the middle. i have no idea why that made sense in my mind. good thing its easter which means im drinking beer and not sitting at my bench
 
Well, if it's any consolation, there's no engineering reason that .277" shouldn't fall right into the BC range of the .264's and .284's. There's nothing magic about the 0.007" that separates it from the 7mm's. The reason is purely marketing-- the .270 is something of an oddball and was sold hard as a hunting cartridge, and that's where it remains. The match/long-range shooters were already shooting 6.5's and 7's (and .30's).
 
gotcha. i see no obvious advantage of the .270 over any .30 hunting cartridges in common use though. for the average north american large game hunt. i use my howa .308 for hunting and my tikka in 6.5x55 for ringing steel further than 500m. i love handloading for the 6.5
 
Nothing wrong with the BC of .277 cal bullets. Heck even the 130gr lightweight SSTs that I load are pushing .460BC. almost all 150s with a boat tail are right around .500 or even higher BTs, ABs, SSTs, VLDs. SGKs are a touch short at .488 but close enough. Are there 6.5mm and 7mm bullets with hicher BC? Sure, but they also both use a tighter standard twist to stabalize longer bullets. .277 cals usualy offer exceptional speed and trajectory my WSM is no exception and I dare any 264WM, 300WM, 7mm RM buff to show me a flatter trajectory at 600 yards. But super flat trajectory and bullet expansion speeds past 500yd yards are traits that hunters look for not guys shooting of a bench shooting at pre-messured targets with pre-set scopes for that exact range.
 
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The .308 round is really a go getter . You can`t go wrong...

If your a "competition shooter", hands down........308.

If you do both, then my money is on the 270.
 
.277 cals usualy offer exceptional speed and trajectory my WSM is no exception and I dare any 264WM, 300WM, 7mm RM buff to show me a flatter trajectory at 600 yards. But super flat trajectory and bullet expansion speeds past 500yd yards are traits that hunters look for not guys shooting of a bench shooting at pre-messured targets with pre-set scopes for that exact range.
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Several points:

1. The quest for a long point-blank distance involves geometrically increasing costs for exponentially decreasing benefits. Once you get past approx 300-350 yards, you will have to use some type of elevation compensation anyway. See this thread where I lay out some numbers (eg .308 vs .300RUM). Once you get past the aversion to twisting the elevation knob, a .308 can make easy hits at 400 yards.

2. If you're shooting past 350 yards, you need to use a rangefinder anyway (or some other reliable ranging technique). The argument about "shooting from the bench", "pre-measured scopes", and "pre-set scopes" is a straw man. Long-range field shooting involves ranging and correcting for elevation and windage on every shot.

3. When you look at other than rank novices, the vast majority of long-range misses are due to incorrect wind calls, not elevation error. It is relatively easy to set the elevation knob correctly, but hard to get the average wind call over a 400+ yard path right. So, wind performance of a load is of primary importance for long-range shooting.

4. The relatively low BC's of even 0.46 or 0.5, even when paired with high muzzle velocity, undermine your desire for high impact velocity and "super-flat" long range trajectory. Here's the data

Code: 
>> Comparison
_Bullet_           _BC_ _MV_         0     200     400     600     800    1000 | YARDS
270 130SST        0.460 3260 >   -0.00    0.84    4.53    9.49   15.79   23.85 | drop (moa)
7RM/WSM 180       0.650 2950 >   -0.00    1.16    5.38   10.66   16.92   24.33 | drop (moa)
7RM/WSM 162       0.625 3125 >   -0.00    0.93    4.65    9.37   14.99   21.67 | drop (moa)
6.5-06 140        0.615 3050 >   -0.00    1.03    4.99   10.00   15.99   23.15 | drop (moa)
.260 140          0.615 2900 >   -0.00    1.25    5.70   11.30   18.03   26.08 | drop (moa)
.308 155          0.508 2930 >   -0.00    1.25    5.84   11.83   19.30   28.68 | drop (moa)


>> Comparison
270 130SST        0.460 3260 >    0.00    2.35   10.03   24.29   46.72   79.42 | wind (inches)
7RM/WSM 180       0.650 2950 >    0.00    1.87    7.85   18.61   34.94   57.84 | wind (inches)
7RM/WSM 162       0.625 3125 >    0.00    1.79    7.54   17.89   33.64   55.74 | wind (inches)
6.5-06 140        0.615 3050 >    0.00    1.89    7.95   18.90   35.58   59.07 | wind (inches)
.260 140          0.615 2900 >    0.00    2.03    8.56   20.35   38.38   63.81 | wind (inches)
.308 155          0.508 2930 >    0.00    2.45   10.44   25.18   48.19   81.26 | wind (inches)


>> Comparison
270 130SST        0.460 3260 >    3260    2836    2448    2094    1773    1489 | velocity (fps)
7RM/WSM 180       0.650 2950 >    2950    2665    2397    2147    1912    1694 | velocity (fps)
7RM/WSM 162       0.625 3125 >    3125    2819    2531    2262    2010    1776 | velocity (fps)
6.5-06 140        0.615 3050 >    3050    2743    2456    2187    1937    1705 | velocity (fps)
.260 140          0.615 2900 >    2900    2603    2324    2065    1823    1601 | velocity (fps)
.308 155          0.508 2930 >    2930    2570    2238    1933    1655    1415 | velocity (fps)
When you compared .270 vs. 6.5-06, the drop at 1000 yards is very close (within 1 moa), but the 6.5-06 has 20" less wind drift per 10 mph cross. The 6.5-06's impact velocity is also roughly 250 fps faster at 1000.

Note that the .308 load retains almost the same velocity at 1000 yards as your 130gr, at 1000. And the wind drift of the .270 load is within 2" of the .308 load at 1000 yards.

I'm sure the numbers would be a little more favorable using a .5 BC 150gr - and I can run those numbers in comparison if you give me a real MV and BC - but the point is that the 7mm and 6.5mm variants will stomp all over the .277, when using comparable parent case sizes, because of bullet selection.
 
1000 yrds??? ok 500yrds still way out there for hunting. ballistic silvertips(what i hunt with) 270win. 9.8in. less drop--2.3 in. less wind drift(10 mph)--185 fps fater--55 more ft lbs energy. Sorry 308 lovers i dont see it. To each their own.
 
you might consider 270-08 or 270-08 AI wildcat, it will give performance of 270 in the short action.
As far as ballistics 270 will outperform 308. Put it in this way shooting 130 gr .277 bullet has same effect as shooting 165 - 168gr 308, but 270 can be launched at 3100 - 3200 fps, compare to 2600 - 2700 308, since both bullets have same SD, the difference in lethality between both is marginal, but 270 will have less drop and more speed.

Myself I only use 270 for hunting, it has great performance and terminal effect, and yes I do limit it to 600 yards, since after it extensionally looses speed, energy, etc...
My favorite load is 150 gr Nosler BT (0.496 BC) and 52gr RL-17 @3000 fps, that's like shooting 180gr 308, which if you'll be lucky to push @2500 fps
 
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