.270 win. compared to 300 win. mag

[Rokman]

I had a Browning A-bolt in 300 Win. mag with a brake that made it feel like shooting a .270. I sold the thing because I just didn't need the overkill for the little Texas and Arkansas deer that I shoot. If I did any lot of elk hunting, etc., I would have kept it. The loud report was extremely annoying though. I personally would buy the .270 and work up some perfect hand loads with some of the premium bullets that are available.

 

[Loanshark]

I'd opt for 308. Simply because you want to reload, and already have some 30 cal rifles.

 

[Bigfoot]

The 300 can destroy a lot of meat, for that matter so can the 270, high velocity and lightly constructed bullets do that. If you shoot factory ammo get 180s, possibly Partitions. The combination of the somewhat lessor velocity and the controlled expansion bullet will keep the damage down. Plus it's good for elk/moose. Be very careful shooting factory 150s, unless they are something like a TSX, E-Tip or some of the bondeds.

I should have mentioned in my earlier post that one of the advantages of loading a cartridge is you get to match the bullet construction and velocity to the game. No bullet blowup, lousy penetration and wasted meat. Consider working up just one medium velocity load that will do 90% of all your hunting. I'd get some good powder and a fairly inexpensive, high BC bullet like a Ballistic Tip, SST or a cup and core Boat Tail of 150 or 165 gr, find an accurate load that's around 2700-2800 fps and call it good. Essentially a .308. Flat enough trajectory, good expansion on yotes and small deer, plenty of penetration for big hogs. Easy on the wallet, easy on the shoulder, you can take the brake off to make it easier on the ears(tinnitus blows), easy on your gun, easy on the brass, easy on the backstraps, etc. I never heard a .308 shooter complain about too much meat damage. With all that hunting you shouldn't have a flinch so that when you do load it with full power 180-200s you won't think anything of it. Until after the shot and your shoulder hurts twice as much.

Ok, that's my 5 cent's.

 

[handle02]

To everyone that has commented on this thread THANK YOU!! I think i'm gonna go with the .300,because i've never had one before and looking at it from a reloading point of view.I will just load the .300 up or down depending on what i'm using it for at that time.I will post pics of my new toy ASAP.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

My opinion, extremely marginal diminishing returns for going with a .300 maggie over the venerable, powerful, and flat-shooting .270 Win - there's a reason why it's the 2nd most popular hunting caliber in the USA. It can do it all, and do it all with less recoil & blast that bigger stuff.

 

[22-rimfire]

I would also get the 270 win unless long shots are the norm or you intend to do much mule deer or elk hunting out west. There is no point in beating yourself up with a caliber when you have a choice. What don't you like about the I-bolt? I have looked at them and they look and feel great to me.

 

[Charshooter]

I said this before, perhaps here, the 270 and 300 Winchester Magnum have a similar trajectory with a difference of 50 grains more bullet for the 300, so the question comes down to whether or not you need to hit you target with a 130-150 grain bullet, or a 180-200 grain pill. You will get a bit extra range with a 165 grain. Out of the 300 yards, the 150 does the same as a 200 with less terminal energy. If you do not need a 300 yard shot then a non-magnum 30 cal will work as good.

I like this combination because I do not have to change shooting style moving between the two rifles, for deer, sheep, antelope, goats the 270 will do a good job and the 270 with a good bullet will take Elk far out, so the 300 gives me a bit more knock down confidence out at long range on Elk.

Mostly where I hunt a 308 Win. will do the job well

 

[AZ Desertrat]

the .300 mag is a classic cartridge.....but so is the .270. I own both and I don't shoot the .300 much because of scarcity of cheap target ammo and the fact that I don't hunt big game too much anymore.....but the .270 has put many trophies on my wall over 40 years...mine is a Win Model 70 and is pre-64...so a few rounds have been put down the pipe on that one. If you don't really NEED the mag....then don't GET the mag. Less is sometimes more.

 

[SuperMidget]

These statements seem contradictory to me. If a .300 Win Mag doesn't have "knock down" power, what does in your opinion, and since you claim it doesn't, why would you want it for bear on Kodiak? What do you consider to be the entry level cartridge that has "knock down" power? The .270 may be on the anemic side, but the .300 Win Mag sure isn't with at least a 60% higher knock out factor (using John Taylor's KO formula**). That extra energy comes at a price of course but the recoil of a .300 Win Mag is very manageable for many shooters.

The reason I would opt for a magnum is to drive heavier bullets at the same speed as a standard weight in an '06 cartridge. For big bears, a 220gr at 2650 is going to have far better penetration than a 150gr at 2850 or a 160 2800 from a .270. You have a lot of animal to move through and the heavy bullet is a touch better insurance.

As for knockdown power, the TKO formula is touted by a lot of people who have no idea what it is really used for. John Taylor came up with that formula to guesstimate how much time you would have if you had a near miss on a frontal brain shot on an elephant. That is the only use he intended it for, and the only use he claimed it was good for.

 

[Bigfoot]

Yep, Taylor Knock Out formula.

Still, increased bullet diameter, velocity and weight generally do have a greater effect on game assuming bullet construction is similar so it's fair that people use that and other energy formulas when considering cartridges.

BTW the 300 can also be loaded to mimic the 270 if that's the performance that a fella really likes. Load the 130 gr TSX or TTSX to around 3000.

 

[handle02]

Thank you!Bigfoot,for pointing that out . That is why I think the 300 is the better choice for me,as you said it can be loaded to mimic the 270.With everyones comments I feel like the 300 will be more flexible in reloading and with the other 30 cal rifles I already have it just makes sense to choose that caliber.

 

[SuperMidget]

BTW the 300 can also be loaded to mimic the 270 if that's the performance that a fella really likes. Load the 130 gr TSX or TTSX to around 3000

If you only want a 130@3000 from a .308" bullet, then please, please pick a .300 Savage or a .308 WCF. In a .300 WinMag that would be a gross under loading and borders on terminally stupid if a secondary explosion occurs. That 130 TTSX should be closer to 3200-3300 than 3000.

Pick a performance you want, and buy the cartridge that meets that performance at or near max loads. An underloaded cartridge can cause higher pressure spikes than an overload in most cases, and it is a whole lot harder to spot an underload.

Two rifles are far cheaper than one rifle and a trip to the ER.

 

[handle02]

Thats a very valid point you brought to the table SuperMidget.I haven't thought of it that way ,but I plan on doing my homework when it comes to loading my own ammo,so hopefully I will not make those stupid mistakes.I would never load a round too hot or underload it,as I have heard too many horror stories about guys just going stupid with loading their own ammo.Like you said a trip to the ER is not worth it.

 

[MCMXI]

As for knockdown power, the TKO formula is touted by a lot of people who have no idea what it is really used for.

Then you'd better include John Linebaugh on that list! I wonder if he knows "what it is really used for".

From John Linebaugh ....

"Most knowledgeable shooters know the foot-pounds of energy formula the industry uses to measure or compare bullet energy leaves a lot to be desired. First it just is not an accurate way to measure comparable bullet effect on critters; and second, critters can't read. A lot of shooters have switched over to the TAYLOR KNOCK-OUT formula for a much more accurate means of measuring bullet effect on game."

As for the rest of us, we all KNOW how and why John Taylor developed his "knock out" formula, so thanks for nothing! Thousands of hunters have relied on the KO formula to help them select a caliber/bullet/velocity combination since it's one of the most effective and accurate scaling tools available, short of conducting ballistic tests.

As for the implications of John Taylor's formula, he stated ....

"I do not think there is any necessity to go into the methods I employed to arrive at the formula I used, suffice it to say that the final figures agree in an altogether remarkable way with the actual performance of the rifles under practical hunting conditions."

This is a broad and general statement about "practical hunting conditions". Although he was primarily concerned about stopping elephants, many have realized that his formula can also be applied to other animals.

 

[Arkel23]

To everyone that has commented on this thread THANK YOU!! I think i'm gonna go with the .300,because i've never had one before and looking at it from a reloading point of view.I will just load the .300 up or down depending on what i'm using it for at that time.I will post pics of my new toy ASAP.

GREAT choice!

 

[SuperMidget]

1858, I've made my thoughts known on the issue, and if you care to take it to a thread for that specific purpose, I'd be happy to debate the use of the TKO formula with you.

However, as it is not pertinent to the issue at hand beyond the statements we've both made and defended, let's drop is and continue on with the discussion of the .270 WCF versus the .300 Win Mag.

 

[MCMXI]

let's drop is and continue on with the discussion of the .270 WCF versus the .300 Win Mag.

As far as the OP goes the point is moot it seems. Frankly, I'd choose neither of the two cartridges mentioned for the OP's intended use. If I had to choose one or the other it'd be the .300 Win Mag for many of the reasons already mentioned by Bigfoot, bang_bang et al. I regularly shoot a .300 Win Mag at 600 yards and I know full well what a 208gr bullet with a MV of 2,850 fps is capable of.

handle02, I recently bought a Savage Weather Warrior in 7mm-08 and you'll be very happy with that model ... it's an excellent rifle with many desirable features all at a very reasonable price.

 

[handle02]

I'm glad to hear some good feedback about the Savage weather warrior 1858,I appreciate that.This particular model has some features that I think any hunter/shooter will like.

 

[MCMXI]

handle02, I don't know if you ordered one yet but I bought mine from www.savage-rifles.com . Shipping was $19 and I had it about one week after ordering. It came with the AccuTrigger and AccuStock without a scratch on it.

http://www.savage-rifles.com/item/55130_Savage_Arms_Rifles_Shotguns_SAV_17802_116FCSS__300_WI.aspx

I like the three-position safety that allows the bolt to be locked with a round in the chamber (safety on). Also, the action is VERY smooth and the magazine is LONG (on the 7mm-08 anyway) so there's no problem seating bullets 0.020" off the lands. Add in the DIY barrel, bolt face, bolt handle, very stiff stock, great trigger and decent finish ... well, it's a keeper. I'm going to change the recoil pad and plastic bolt release (if I can find a stainless one) but that's it.

 

[handle02]

Ok this site you put up links to is a hell of a lot cheaper than the gun shop I WAS going to purchase my rifle from. I'm glad you posted those, the shop that has the gun I wanted is asking 750.00 plus tax and backround!! I thought that wasn't too bad according to Savages' website by going on their msrps'.The site you posted, do you have to have an FFL to order from them?If not how do I go about ordering one and getting it sent to an FFL dealer?I've never ordered a gun online before and have no clue how it works.

 

[MCMXI]

handle02, it's simple enough. When you submit your order online and enter your zip code as part of that order, a list of FFL dealers will pop up. You simply choose the one that you want and they'll ship it to that dealer. You can also request that it gets sent to an FFL not on their list. However, it's best to talk to a local FFL first to find out how much they charge for the service so that you won't be in for any surprises. The FFL dealer that I use locally charges 7% of the firearm cost up to a maximum of $100. Since I've bought numerous firearms and accessories from and through him, he's not too particular about the fee. Sometimes he waives it completely, or charges 4% or 5% etc., but never more than 7% or $100, whichever is lower.

 

[handle02]

Thank you very very much!!!You've been a huge help and I greatly appreciate it!!!

 

[Bigfoot]

In a .300 WinMag that would be a gross under loading and borders on terminally stupid if a secondary explosion occurs. That 130 TTSX should be closer to 3200-3300 than 3000.

That's why I linked the manufactures own load data for 5744 on post #21. Accurate manufactures this powder for reduced loads. Here is their powder description from the Midway link on that post.

"Accurate 5744 Smokeless Powder 1 lb

A short cut, extruded, double base rifle propellant perfect for shooting reduced loads, low pressure rifle cartridges and large capacity handgun cartridges. Used by IHMSA shooters, 5744 promotes consistent ignitition, uniform metering and consistent velocity."

You can't get a secondary explosion using it within the load data. Also it's very bulky and a double charge would be obvious. Still, always double check the powder height like I mentioned earlier.

Other good powders for reduced loads are IMR-4759 and H-4895 at above 60% of the full charge. I've also heard of RE-7 and H-4198 but I don't know enough about them for this purpose to recommend them.

Anybody that doesn't feel safe reloading reduced loads shouldn't do it.

I love my Savage rifle even without the Accustock, great shooter, solid choice.

 

[Dr_2_B]

I'm gonna have to break down and get me a 270

 

[dullh]

Ever considered a .300 Winchester Short Magnum?