2A "Why A Recent Supreme Court Copyright RulingMay Have Important Implication for 2A"

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cuchulainn

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Very interesting (though this guy is a 2A collectivist, so the latter half of his essay is him attempting to dismiss the point he brings up in the first half

from Find Law

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dorf/20030205.html


Why A Recent Supreme Court Copyright RulingMay Have Important Implications for Second Amendment Gun Rights As Well

By MICHAEL C. DORF
----
Wednesday, Feb. 05, 2003

Recently, in Eldred v. Ashcroft, the Supreme Court declined to strike down the 1998 Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act. The Act had extended all current and future copyright terms by twenty years. (Previously, copyright protection had generally lasted for the lifetime of the author plus fifty years; now it lasts for the lifetime of the author plus seventy years.)

The decision is important in its own right. Yet it may ultimately hold even greater significance if its logic is applied in what may seem a completely different context: gun control and the Second Amendment.

Does Eldred Mean Prefatory Language Will Generally Be Ignored?

The Constitution's Copyright & Patent Clause grants Congress the power "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."

In Eldred, the plaintiffs placed heavy reliance on the prefatory clause declaring the purpose of the copyright grant: "To promote the Progress of Science and useful arts." They argued that extending existing copyrights did not serve this purpose. Extending future copyrights might "promote ... progress" by giving authors financial incentives to create more, and better, works. But for works that have already been created, no further incentives are needed.

A 7-2 majority of the Supreme Court, in an opinion written by Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, rejected this argument. It pointed out that prior statutory extensions of copyrights--in 1831, 1909, and 1976--had applied to existing, as well as future, works. And it found that Congress could have rationally believed that it was only fair to give the same protection to holders of existing and future copyrights.

Putting aside the merits of the Eldred ruling (which were discussed on this site in a recent column by Chris Sprigman), now that it is law, what will its impact be? Does it mean that constitutional prefatory language can effectively be ignored by the Court? If so, that may have a profound effect on interpretation of the Second Amendment.

The Significance of the Second Amendment's Prefatory Language

The Second Amendment, like the Copyright & Patent Clause, contains prefatory language that declares its purpose, and can be read to limit its scope. Strikingly, it is the only other constitutional provision that does so. (Of course, the Preamble that precedes the entire Constitution could be argued to have a similar function, but if so it applies to every constitutional provision, not to any particular clause.)

Specifically, the Second Amendment provides: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." What is the significance of the prefatory language "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state"? Does it simply declare the Amendment's purpose, but lack any independent force of law? Or does it serve to limit the Amendment's scope?

Put another way, does the right declared by the Amendment belong only to the "militia" (or the People as a whole), as the prefatory language suggests? Or does it belong to individuals, as the rest of the Amendment, standing alone, could be read to imply?

That issue matters a great deal. It has already divided federal appeals courts, and will likely soon be considered by the Supreme Court.

Indeed, in a separate concurrence in the 1997 case of Printz v. United States, Justice Thomas indicated that the issue was ripe for consideration. The last time the Court addressed the issue was in 1939, in United States v. Miller, and courts and commentators alike have found that decision somewhat opaque.

To be sure, the Court can avoid the issue for now, for the appeals court decisions rendered so far do not present a perfect conflict. (One involved a federal statute; one concerned a California law; and neither struck the relevant statute down). But eventually, the high court will have to confront the question.

In an earlier column, I discussed the Second Amendment issue as it stood before Eldred. Now, however, Eldred may have changed the contours of the legal terrain in a way that matters a great deal.

How Eldred Affects Individualist and Collectivist Second Amendment Views

If the prefatory language indeed limits the Second Amendment right to bear arms, then Congress and the states likely retain the power to broadly regulate gun possession. On this reading, the right is one of the People collectively (and state militias), not of individuals.

There is some historical evidence for this understanding, commonly called the "collective right" view: The Second Amendment was inspired by fears among Anti-Federalists and others that a too-powerful federal government would use a standing army to dominate the states. Perhaps the best evidence for the collective right view is the Amendment's own preface. Accordingly, in adopting the collectivist understanding, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, in its 2002 ruling in Silveira v. Lockyer, substantially relied on the Amendment's prefatory language.

On the other hand, if the prefatory language can basically be ignored, the right would seem to be an individual one. Imagine that the Second Amendment simply read: "The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." A natural reading of the language might then suggest that the right was an individual right--like many others in the Bill of Rights, which similarly lack prefaces declaring their purposes. (No doubt that is why the NRA website includes the truncated version of the Second Amendment as its motto.)

Again, there is separate evidence for what is sometimes called the "individualist" view. Those who support it say it is individuals who have the right to "keep" arms so they can "bear" them when called up for service in a state militia, but may otherwise use those arms however they see fit. And prior to Eldred, in United States v. Emerson, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit took this view. But ignoring the preface, as Eldred suggests is a legitimate interpretive move, would strongly favor the individualist view of the Second Amendment.

Before Eldred, individualists and collectivists alike had assumed that any satisfying account of the Second Amendment must explain the relation between the preface and the remainder of the Amendment. After Eldred, however, it is possible that this is no longer true. If so, the individualists may well prevail.

How Far Does Eldred's Logic Go?

Eldred's ruling, however, may not be applicable in the Second Amendment context. After all, despite the parallels, the Copyright and Patent Clause is worded differently, and has a different history from, the Second Amendment. For example, in Eldred, Justice Ginsburg noted that Congressional practice consistently permitted retroactive extension of copyrights. But in contrast, early American practice permitted extensive regulation of gun ownership.

Moreover, Eldred involved a constitutional provision conferring power on Congress--not one that, like the Second Amendment, describes a right of the People, or of individuals (depending on one's view). The difference is significant because the effect of Eldred was to leave the underlying issue to the democratic process via Congress. The decision was expressly justified as an instance of judicial restraint.

In contrast, a decision to follow Eldred in the Second Amendment context, and ignore the Amendment's preface, would have the effect of limiting what Congress--and the democratic process--could do. Thus, it would constitute an instance of judicial activism, not judicial restraint. Or, to put the contrast more simply, Eldred gave Congress a free hand in the copyright context; a similar holding would tie the hands of Congress and the states in the gun control context.

In sum, the Eldred Court's treatment of the Copyright and Patent Clause's preface suggests an interesting line of argument about the Second Amendment, and its preface. In the end, however, that argument will have to stand or fall on its own merits, due to the contrasts between the two constitutional provisions.

Ultimately, then, Eldred really is a case about Mickey Mouse, not Yosemite Sam or other (real-life) gunslingers.

Copyright © 1994-2002 FindLaw
 
Nay, El Tejon...

even more, the difference between the copyright law in the constitution and the 2nd amendment in the Bill of Rights, is one grants a power to the congress and the other delineates a God-given right, that cannot be constrained nor abrogated by any law to the contrary. :mad:
 
I don't understand how the prefatory language could limit anything. People seriously need to look up the 18th century definition of "regulated"
 
You're right, cuchulainn. This is a very interesting theory.

Also notice how different patent and copyright laws are considering that they came from the same egg. Congress was empowered by the prefatory clause to do what it thought helpful to accomplish the purpose of the article.

Rather than empowering, the "prefatory clause" of the 2A is an explanation of one reason why Congress is not empowered to mess around with RKBA, perhaps because the right was not self evident to totalitarian governments.
 
The Plainsman nailed it.

The copyright and patent clause is one of the powers specifically delegated to the federal government. Therefore, prefatory clause notwithstanding, the federal government does have a right to create laws with regard to copyrights and patents.

The 2A, OTOH, is one of the powers specifically denied to the federal government. Prohibiting infringements on our right to bear arms was believed by the founders to be so important that it had to be enshrined in the Constitution. But even if the 2ndA did not exist, the federal government would have no legal authority to infringe on firearm ownership, because that power was not granted to the federal government anywhere in the Constitution..
 
I thought around 1991 the US Supreme Court ruled relating to the Guiterrez (sp?) vs. the U.S., that any place in the Constitution or Bill of Rights that refers to rights and "people", means it is an individual right. Done deal.

I seem to recall the Court cited the 2nd Amendment as well as others in its ruling as individual rights. This was in the majority opinion written by the Chief Justice Rehnquist, if I recall correctly.
 
moa,

Gutierrez is the usual spelling of that surname, but I couldn't find any likely SCOTUS cases styled that way. I'd sure like to find the case you're thinking of. Any more recollections about it?
 
The segment you are all thinking of in Verdugo-Urquirdez is called dicta, meaning it is judicial editorializing from the bench, but not considered part of the holding, i.e., the legal opinion about the case at hand.

Also take note that the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, our friends who recently found it obvious that the Second Amendment does not apply to individuals, found it difficult to conclude that Verdugo-Urquidez lacked rights under the US Constitution though he was a foreign national in residence in a foreign country when DEA agents searched his foreign home. Of course a 6-3 SCOTUS majority had no problem saying a foreigner is not covered by the constitution when he is not on our soil.

These "judges" in San Francisco are geniuses! You have no right to a gun in your own country, but someone who doesn't live here and who is not a citizen has a right against unreasonable searches and seizures in Mexico if US agents are involved.:scrutiny:
 
The clause this writer mentions is also the only place in the body of the Constitution that the word "Right" appears and refers to persons -- authors and inventors -- and uses the word "their". Everywhere else in the Constitution and BoR the word "power" or "powers" is used to describe the powers of the Executive, Judiciary, States, and Congress.

The thing that bothers me on the "prefatory" clause of the Second Amendment is that it, and the entire Amendment, does not follow proper grammatical structure. Consider that last sentence as an example.

The thing that bothers me on the "prefatory" clause of the Second Amendment is that it, and the entire Amendment, does not follow proper grammatical structure.
The words "and the entire Amendment" between the quotes are a declarative clause which merely serves to further define the meaning of the writer but in its absence the sentence is still complete and would read:
The thing that bothers me on the "prefatory" clause of the Second Amendment is that it does not follow proper grammatical structure.

Now, consider the Second Amendment.

The prefatory clause does not, of and by itself, form a complete sentence:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State.
It is an INCOMPLETE sentence.

However, the second portion of the Amendment, of and by itself, does form a complete sentence:
The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

There is this misplaced "comma" within the sentence that is bothersome. A comma denotes a pause or, in the reading of the sentence, a short breath between clauses. Try reading the sentence while pausing, or taking a short breath, between the clauses:
The right of the people to keep and bear Arms ... shall not be infringed.
See what I mean?

The Amendment does not follow proper sentence structure and, if one were to remove any of the clauses bretween any of the commas, would not form a complete sentence.

Examples:

Being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

A well regulated Militia the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, shall not be infringed.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms.

See what I mean? None of the clauses connect if any of them are removed. There should be a semicolon after "State" to denote a separate sentence forming clause. This is used in statements which preface a question such as:

There was no outcome that was reasonable to expect; so what do we do instead?

In its proper context, the Amendment should read:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State; the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

But for that simple semicolon, we are left to an argument that has raged through the history of this nation.
 
I agree with Boats. Here's the pertinent language from Verdugo-Urquirdez:
The Fourth Amendment provides: [494 U.S. 259, 265]


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

That text, by contrast with the Fifth and Sixth Amendments, extends its reach only to "the people." Contrary to the suggestion of amici curiae that the Framers used this phrase "simply to avoid [an] awkward rhetorical redundancy," Brief for American Civil Liberties Union et al. as Amici Curiae 12, n. 4, "the people" seems to have been a term of art employed in select parts of the Constitution. The Preamble declares that the Constitution is ordained and established by "the people of the United States." The Second Amendment protects "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms," and the Ninth and Tenth Amendments provide that certain rights and powers are retained by and reserved to "the people." See also U.S. Const., Amdt. 1 ("Congress shall make no law . . . abridging . . . the right of the people peaceably to assemble") (emphasis added); Art. I, 2, cl. 1 ("The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the people of the several States") (emphasis added). While this textual exegesis is by no means conclusive, it suggests that "the people" protected by the Fourth Amendment, and by the First and Second Amendments, and to whom rights and powers are reserved in the Ninth and Tenth Amendments, refers to a class of persons who are part of a national community or who have otherwise developed sufficient connection with this country to be considered part of that community. See United States ex rel. Turner v. Williams, 194 U.S. 279, 292 (1904) (Excludable alien is not entitled to First Amendment rights, because "[h]e does not become one of the people to whom these things are secured by our Constitution by an attempt to enter forbidden by law"). The language of these Amendments contrasts with the words [494 U.S. 259, 266] "person" and "accused" used in the Fifth and Sixth Amendments regulating procedure in criminal cases.
 
To jimpeel:

The actual text of the Second Amendment as officially adopted has only one comma (in the middle), not 3. The 3 comma version is a hold over from early drafts and creates some confusion (especially for anti's looking for any excuse).
 
Thanks, all. Verdugo-Urquirdez must be the ruling I was thinking about. I know it had to be some kind of exotic (too me) name that would easily confuse me.
 
There's a discussion on the comma issue here:

http://www.sas-aim.org/letterweek/052101.htm

The notes at the bottom of this page discusses the subject:

http://www.constitution.org/billofr_.htm

Note that I know the authors of both those pages, and trust their credibility and scholarship explicitly.

Found more here:

http://www.libertyhaven.com/personalfreedomissues/guns/readingsecond.html - don't know these guys.

http://www.crpa.org/phillips.html - the CRPA is a sane bunch. They say the comma controversy may stem from spots on the paper(!) but that it doesn't really matter.

http://www.saf.org/Constitutions.html - SAF's views.

Do a google search using:

"second amendment" commas

...and you'll get these and a lot more hits.

---------------

Getting back to the original issue, I think at the very least this is something Gary Gorski can use to get the 9th to hear Silveira En Banc.
 
The text I posted was cut and pasted from http://www.archives.gov/exhibit_hall/charters_of_freedom/bill_of_rights/amendments_1-10.html which is the official webpage of the United States Congress. There are three -- count 'em -- three commas in the text posted there.

They also have images of the original documents but they are not readable even when zoomed in.

If the text were written "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State; the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed." there would be no confusion and no misinterpretation. Unfortunately, they left out that damned semicolon.
 
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