2nd Range Trip this Weekend

[Broadbill]

Okay, I got some stuff in the mail. I received my new nipples(I was having trouble with caps needing 2 hits) and I got my Hornady Great Plains 385gr .

So far all I've tried was the FFFg Triple7. Due to allowable time I'm sticking with it for now. My rifle is an older Cabelas Investarms and seems to be a Lyman Trade Rifle with set triggers. 28" barrel, 1-48" twist.

The Lyman catalog states maximum loads as;
.490 RB.............................90gr 3Fg
420gr Maxi.........................80gr 3Fg

So if I'm shooting Triple7 my max loads should be roughly 80gr for RB and 70gr for the 385gr Maxi respectively correct?

I don't want to have any disasters but I am trying to develop a hunting load so I'm looking for some wallop. Of course accuracy first wallop second.

Also can/should I relube the Maxi with Bore Butter?

Thanks for the advice,

Broadbill

 

[arcticap]

The equivalent powder loads are about right.
I think that it's preferable to remove the old dried out lube and then to relube the Maxi's. Others may feel that re-lubing is optional.
Although it's soft, the fresh Bore Butter won't get runny now that it's cooler.
Some folks use Crisco since it's not quit as soft and is often handy.
Using an over powder card or wool wad under the Maxi is something to consider trying.
Try not to allow the Maxi to migrate up the barrel and off of the powder charge once it's loaded, especially when hunting.
Keeping the muzzle elevated will help to keep that from happening.
Some might place another card or wad over it but how that would affect accuracy would need to be tested.
Gauge the amount of friction when the Maxi is rammed on to the powder so that you have a feel for how well it will hold in place. Some conicals will feel looser than others.

 

[Broadbill]

Thanks Articap, I'm expecting to get better accuracy from the PRB. Depending on accuracy that may be my go to load anyway.

Broadbill

 

[mykeal]

If you're consistently requiring two hits on each cap the caps are either too small or the nipple is mushroomed and needs to be replaced.

The load seems reasonable for what you want. That should take any North American game inside 150 yards if you do your part. I'd do some development for accuracy, however. Shoot 3 shot groups varying the load between 70 and 90 or 95 in 5 grain increments and see if one produces smaller groups than the others.

 

[Broadbill]

Okay hopefully I can experiment some more tomorrow. I put on the new nipple and fired a few caps and they all went off on the first try. I've got a new range rod, some .490 and .495 balls, and the 385gr Hornady Great Plains. I think they're Minies, they're concave on the bottom that would make them minies right?
Now I broke out the micrometer and tried to measure the bore at the muzzle. It seems to be .480 land to land and .520 groove to groove. Does that sound about right?
When I seat the ball how tight should it be? Is there any advantage to it being real tight? Last time I used both .015 and .010 patches. The .010 were definitely easier to seat, and seemed to be more accurate. I know that a .490 ball and a .015 patch seem to be standard. I guess I'll just have to try both patches with both balls and learn for myself.

Broadbill

 

[arcticap]

The Great Plains shoot accurately but they can be tight loading. You may need to gently mallet them part way down the bore so it's better to be prepared.

 

[Broadbill]

Gently mallet them. Well that gives me a better idea about how tight is tight. I was setting the PBR's pretty easily.
Now I find out that my friend who is taking me hunting has never fired his BP rifle either. I'm supposed to teach him today. Wish me luck it dosen't look good.

BB

 

[Broadbill]

I feel that I should post a report so that you who have helped me can see my progress but today didn't yield any hard and fast results.

I started with 60gr of 777 and a PBR. It shot okay but not great. I tried loading more powder 70gr, 75gr but no better groups and still couldn't find a fired patch in the grass.

A gentleman at the range came over and gave me some supplies and had me shoot 75gr of his Goex fff, a 54cal wad, and then my patched ball.
It didn't shoot noticibely better but I was able to find the patches which leads me to believe that mine are burning up. Your thoughts?

I switched over to the Great Plains Minies. Now I had to resight in. I maxed out at 80gr 777 under the 385gr minie. Again on paper but nothing to be proud of.

All in all I really can't evaluate the rifle and load performance until I practice much more.
I'm 53 yrs old, my eyesight isn't great, I'm basically a shotgunner, and I haven't fired anything with iron sights in probably 25 years.

As it is now I've got one more weekend of practice. I feel confident that with either the Minie or the PBR I can properly place a shot on a deer at 50yds. However I need to pick one as the sighting isn't interchangeable. I think for hunting I'll try to stick with the Minie. I have more confidence in it breaking bone than the PBR. Maybe if I try a max load for the PBR, I don't know.

Now, what does disappearing burning patches mean? That can't be a good thing.

Broadbill

 

[mykeal]

At 50, or even 100, yards the patched round ball is a very effective round against big game. At that range either projectile will do the job, so you should shoot whatever you have the most confidence in with respect to accuracy. If you feel better about placing a killing shot at 50 yards with the minie, then that's what you should be using.

 

[Broadbill]

Actually I like the PBR with 60grs but I don't know if its got enough wallop.
My cheek really took a beating with the hotter loads.
Would Goex shoot softer with comparable loads?

It wasn't really a recoil thing but a fat face/high comb thing.

Broadbill

 

[mykeal]

I wouldn't use 60 gr real black powder with a pbr on elk or bear, but it will certainly take down a whitetail or pig from 50 yards if you do your part.

Goex is 10-15% less powerful than the same load by volume of 777.

 

[arcticap]

Now, what does disappearing burning patches mean? That can't be a good thing.

Since lubed patches don't usually burn maybe they're just not being found. They can drift off and be difficult to locate and maybe they're getting shredded but not burned.
You should shoot the projectile that you feel most confident with.
With similar powder charges a heavy conical will hit harder and penetrate better than a ball which also translates into more felt recoil.
I did find this review #32 of the Cabela's/Lyman .54 Hawken with 1 in 48" twist:

Excellent value!, December 10, 2006
By DirtBurnerTony from Manitou Beach, MI


"The Cabela's Traditional Hawken, .54 cal. has been a joy to shoot! .....[edit]
.....The rear sight also seemed a bit loose, but with a little elbow grease and good ol' American know-how, I fixed the problem...I bought a fiber-optic type Cabela's also sells (one of the few I found that will actually fit this make of muzzleloader)! Despite those minor set-backs, I thought the rifle is very accurate. Especially with an 80gr. charge of Pyrodex RS and a 425gr. Hornady Great Plains bullet. Its looks and beauty can lend itself to being an excellent candidate for a family heirloom (if taken care of)."

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...de=XK&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat601141

Some folks prefer shooting balls, others conicals, some prefer 777 and others Pyrodex. The important thing is where does the projectile hit on the first shot when the barrel is clean and cold. Can you hit a pie plate target or a 12" X 12" target?
That's the test pretty much.
Maybe you ought to apply some orange paint to the front sight to see it better?
Or maybe you want to try a wad under the conical or try shooting with the APP powder that you have?
There's not too much left for you to try except some Powerbelt bullets with the plastic skirt, sabots, another conical bullet or Pyrodex.
I realize that you'd rather not shoot plastic so keep experimenting with what you have.
Maybe if you try yet another powder you'll notice a difference, or maybe you should be satisfied with your shooting results thus far and keep practicing.
What ever load that you select is probably exactly what you should be hunting with for the time being.
That's another test where you're the judge and get to decide which load works the best for the intended purpose.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Articap's point about being able to hit the target with a clean and cold barrel is well taken and to practice with the load you intend to hunt with.

 

[ThomasT]

My first BP rifle was a cabelas 54 caliber hawken. I bought the starter kit and it came with .010 thick patches. I couldn't get that gun to shoot worth a darn. I almost gave up on BP shooting.

I bought the book "The Complete Black Powder Shooting" by Sam Fadala. That taught me what I needed to know. Its not hard either. First thing is stop using those thin patches.

In my 50 cals I use .018 thick pillow ticking I buy at WM. I wash it first to remove the sizing. I cut square patches and they work fine. I use .490 balls and .520 in the the 54cal. Up to 70grs I just patch the ball. Over 70 grs I put a loose patch in first and then the patched ball. This works like a firewall for the ball patch. My patches on the ball are so good after firing they could probably be used over again.

For patch lube I use two kinds. My favorite is a water soluable oil that also doubles as my gun cleaner. I have been told here before that it won't work. Good thing I tried it first. I haven't fired my BP rifles in over 5 years and they are in perfect shape without a speck of rust. We used water soluable oil in my dads machine shop and we never had rust form on any of our parts. Even cast iron wouldn't rust. Just touching cast iron will make it rust.

My second lube is made from a wax ring used at the base of a toilet with about an equal amount of crisco added in. I also added a small amount of parafin wax to make it just a little stiffer. I melted all of it together over a low heat and poured it in plastic tubs. I like it just as well as bore butter and it was cheap to make. Also those are new wax rings, not used.

I am getting back to shooting my BP guns and I am looking for a small bore rifle. I had a t/c seneca .36 that I stupidly sold. That gun was a hoot to shoot. I used to shoot 38 hb wadcutters out of it. They were a perfect fit and with the hollow base made an excellent mini style bullet.

 

[Bluehawk]

"I am getting back to shooting my BP guns and I am looking for a small bore rifle. I had a t/c seneca .36 that I stupidly sold. That gun was a hoot to shoot. I used to shoot 38 hb wadcutters out of it. They were a perfect fit and with the hollow base made an excellent mini style bullet."

What a coincidence...I was just saying the same thing about shooting HBWC out of my .36 Seneca in another thread!!!! And it was in Texas to boot when I discovered they would work!
And no...I won't sell you mine...I sold my original one stupidly too...this one I'm keeping...took me too long and too much money to replace it!!!!