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2nd strike capability?

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by BillyBothHands, Feb 23, 2010.

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  1. BillyBothHands

    BillyBothHands Member

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    So when/where/from whos training did 2nd strike capable semi-autos suddenly become important?
    It seems like thats in every review of a new one these days whether it will do it or not. It kinda of flies in the face of tap,rap,bang no? I realize that started and is the only sensible option for the 1911's other single actions, but a lot of us have been doing it a long time.

    So what does everyone think? Marketing ploy? some great new training regime that I'm not privy to?
     
  2. tekarra

    tekarra Member

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    I think repeat strike capability in a semi-auto is a desireable characteristic. Several times I have had primers fail on the first strike and have then fired on the second strike. The SA, especially the 1911 and the P35, has definite appeal and certainly both have good followings, but there is a place for the repeat strike semi-auto as well.
     
  3. danez71

    danez71 Member

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    Maybe it stems from the black powder days when a FTF happened I think it was common to try to fire it again before unpacking and start over again.

    The principle of trying again before starting over isnt a novelty and applies to many things.

    To answer your last questions.... I dont think its a bad idea/it cant hurt having the option... yes, mostly marketing ploy.... not a new great thing but an old mediocre thing in a newer platform
     
  4. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

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    Double action??

    in a serious fighting weapon, John Moses Browning got it right, if the round didn't fire the first time tap, rack....

    second strike could mean that your brain get in the line of
    point gun pull trigger gun goes boom
    pull trigger click....click....click
     
  5. mgmorden

    mgmorden Member

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    I think it's a positive feature to have, but I don't place a whole lot of importance on it (evidenced by the fact that the gun I bought for carry - a Ruger LCP - doesn't have 2nd strike capability).

    It's more of a "Oh, that's cool" feature when mentioned, but it won't make or break my decision. Aside from a few "work" guns that have specific purposes, most of my guns I buy with the intent to have fun at the range, so a lot of such features really don't matter a lot to me. Heck the only handgun I've ever had snap on me at all was an old FIE .22LR SA revolver.
     
  6. AK103K

    AK103K Member

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    Its just something some autos can do, just due to the mechanics of the design.

    Realistically, if its an auto and goes "click", it immediately goes, TRB. Not "click" again.
     
  7. FIVETWOSEVEN

    FIVETWOSEVEN Member

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    click-rack-tap-bang vs click...click...click...click
    you be the judge
     
  8. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    Restriking just wastes 1 or two more seconds that you should have used for tap, rack, bang.

    If it didn't fire the first time it ain't going to fire the second. practice the T/R/B until it's instinctive, easy, and quick.
     
  9. usp9

    usp9 Member

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    It was a requirement for military pistol procurement up until the latest Joint Combat pistol trials. That made it very important to anyone wanting to sell to the U.S. Government.
     
  10. easyg

    easyg Member

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    I agree with what some of the others have already said....

    Second-strike capability is just a waste of time IMO.
     
  11. Shawn Dodson

    Shawn Dodson Member

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    Pressing the trigger a second time might clear one type of stoppage. Tap, Roll & Rack will positively clear it and several other, more likely, stoppages.
     
  12. armchairQB

    armchairQB Member

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    With the Hi Powers 32 lb mainspring, I am pretty sure a second hit wouldnt detonate the thing anyway. I wont worry too much about double strike for my carry pistol.
     
  13. possum

    possum Member

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    for the untrained the 2nd strike capanility might be a plus, however when i hear a click instead of a bang, i conduct tap, rack and bang, so the 2nd strike capability has no use to me personally. to others maybe however i am with what works for me, and what works consistantly with a wider range of handguns.
     
  14. jonboynumba1

    jonboynumba1 Member

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    I think the bigger issue as far as Taurus goes is that their millenium guns have poor FCG design and break a lot...second strike might help sell a gun...but designing it so it doesn't break might make more sense...I've sent like 3-4 millenium/24/7/pro/(whatever the same design is called this week) back for repairs last year alone and between the firing pins and the WAY too light-weight design of the rest of the pistols frankly -we snap the gun with a pen in the barrel before we even take them in pawn or trade anymore...to make sure it isn't already broken (or broken again) They actually feel good in hand...I shot the .45 compact and it surprised me at the range...but I wouldn't trust the design with my life....don't care how many times I can snap it! If they redesigned the FCG's and firing-pin/strikers to something more robust it would be a damn fine lil gun. As it is I try to avoid selling them or taking them in trade...but the customer is always right...and they do sell well. Not sure who else is using that as a marketing gimmick.
     
  15. BP Hunter

    BP Hunter Member

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    The 2nd strike capability is an option I think is quite important. Carrying a gun has only one purpose - self defense. Unless, you have ingrained in you rmind the tap, rack and everytime it fails to fire, I think just pulling the trigger again would be much faster and instinctual.
     
  16. RobMoore

    RobMoore Member

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    ...and most of the time, a waste of it.
     
  17. AK103K

    AK103K Member

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    Thats where the TRB should be, ingrained in the membrane (so to speak :) ).

    By not doing it, you've just wasted precious time making clicks and trying to perform an already failed action that rarely works by doing it again and again, and most likely, the next bang you wont hear, wont be coming from your gun.
     
  18. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Probably the most succinct and valid summation of this thread possible.

    Only perhaps beaten by someone in another recent thread who just said, "Ammo's cheap, breathing ISN'T. Tap, rack, bang."

    Really, who cares how many times you can make it go "click?" :cool:

    -Sam
     
  19. BP Hunter

    BP Hunter Member

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    I'm sure everybody has had one time or another a round that wouldn't fire on a possible light strike. Have you ever used the ammo again or did you just simply throw it away? So far, the rounds that have failed to go off with me, have always gone off when struck again.
     
  20. AK103K

    AK103K Member

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    My experience has been that, other than .22LR's, no, none have fired in the fairly rare instances that they didnt fire the first time.

    If your having light strikes with your gun, that needs to be addressed. Its not why you might have a 2nd strike capability, it means something is wrong with your gun.
     
  21. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    I've never kept track, but let's say it's 50% or so. When you're on the range, if you REALLY need to make that one round go off, you can always reload it into the magazine and try dropping the hammer again. If it goes bang, great. If it doesn't, toss it out. That works with a Single-Action gun or any other kind of non-second-strike gun almost as easily as it does in a gun that you can "snap" over and over. There's no time pressure, and very little at stake, so the speed advantage of a "second strike" gun is moot.

    But that's NOT THE POINT. The "second-strike" capacity of some guns isn't for saving ammo at the range. It is marketed as a last-ditch self-defense tactic. If you have a misfire, just snap that trigger over and over and maybe the round will light off. Maybe, maybe not. But this is your life on the line and no extra seconds to spend on tactics that don't work -- even 50% of the time (at best).

    Your brain needs to be wired to respond to "CLICK," with TAP, RACK, BANG! Not with an impotent "click, click, click!"

    -Sam
     
  22. usp9

    usp9 Member

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    I'd rather have it than not. You can never tell, but that could end up being your only option in a bad situation.
     
  23. Straight Shooter

    Straight Shooter Member

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    Not just a "click" issue.

    If you pull the trigger and there is no bang, there is a problem. What is the problem? The cartridge? FTE? FTF? The mag isn't seated? Is the gun out of battery?

    TRB solves all of these problems. Multiple problems, one solution. No need to figure it out in an emergency.
     
  24. fastbolt

    fastbolt Member

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    Well, personally I don't have any idea why some 'reviews' emphasize some of the things the authors decide to emphasize. You'd have to ask them. They undoubtedly have their reasons.

    FWIW, my training, skills and reactions to problems aren't dependent or conditioned upon whether or not the pistol I may be carrying has 'second strike capability'. Some of mine do, and some of them don't.

    "Second strike capability" isn't on my list of priorities when selecting a new defensive pistol, either, come to think about it ...

    Now, when it comes to a DA/DAO revolver ... ;)
     
  25. BullfrogKen

    BullfrogKen Moderator Emeritus

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    I think it started about the time Smith & Wesson began competing with the Colt and Browning market for autoloaders, and has been touted as a "benefit" since.


    Pure product-driven feature, not market-driven. It's an important feature because "we build a gun that does it and they don't; therefore it's important you have the ability."


    I've never seen such a feature talked up outside of a company's product literature and advertising, or lauded in the gun writer's article . . . which just happens to appear among pages and pages of gun advertising.


    I've never seen a reputable school, trainer, department or other quality instruction teaching the technique.


    So Billy, that ought to tell you all you need to know about when it became such an important feature.
     
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