3 rounds in chest, treated and released

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More fodder for the penetration discussions as well as the stupid crooks awards.

Vick

http://www.al.com/news/mobileregister/index.ssf?/base/news/1138184280281630.xml&coll=3

Police say IDs lead to arrests in party robbery

Wednesday, January 25, 2006
By DAVID FERRARA
Staff Reporter

BAY MINETTE -- Two robbers couldn't hide behind ski masks when they burst into a party Sunday because they had been guests just hours earlier -- wearing the same clothes, police said.

Gregory Lyles and Gregory DaWaun Anderson never changed out of their shirts in the roughly three hours that passed between the time they left a football-watching party and the time they allegedly returned to rob the host, shooting a guest in the process, according to Bay Minette Police Chief Michael Rowland.

Lyles and Anderson were quickly caught as nearly all of the victims believed that they recognized them, police said Tuesday.

The two were being held without bond Tuesday in the Baldwin County Corrections Center in Bay Minette, the chief said. The Bay Minette men, face attempted murder, first-degree robbery and first-degree burglary charges.

In news releases issued shortly after the incident, police named the two as the prime suspects. Lyles, 24, surrendered to police Monday morning, and Anderson, 19, did the same later that evening, Rowland said.

Rowland said the two had attended the party at Michael Baker's home on Vine Street for a few hours, but left around 3 p.m. A few minutes after 6 p.m., they stormed back, their faces covered by ski masks, forcing the door open, while a group of about 10 people were watching the NFL playoffs.

Both wielding 9-mm handguns, Lyles and Anderson fired at least six total rounds into the ceiling and walls and announced they wanted money, according to the chief.

The gunfire scared many of the guests, who ran to neighbors' homes and called police and named the suspects, according to Rowland.

One of the victims, Eric Broughton, apparently recognized Lyles by his voice and tattoos he left uncovered on his arms, the chief said.

Anderson chased Broughton and reached around a bedroom door as Broughton tried to shut it, Rowland said. Anderson shot him three times in the chest, he said. Broughton was treated at the University of South Alabama Medical Center in Mobile and released Monday, according to Rowland.

The robbers stole at least $1,000 before fleeing south on Vine Street on foot, according to the chief. Police later found a ski mask and a jacket with an undisclosed amount of cash stuffed inside. Investigators believe most of the money was stolen from Baker, Rowland said.

Even though Lyles and Anderson were the main suspects, Rowland said, "We're not going to exclude that there may be further arrests in this case."
 
Wow. If I ever get shot, I hope its with 9mm FMJ. :rolleyes: Treated and released. Lucky guy.
 
Judging by the descriptions of the perps...I believe it is a safe bet to say that they were using FMJ's. These thug types usually go into gun stores or Wal-Mart and just buy whatever is cheapest and gets them out quickest. They don't know much about firearms other than how to pull the trigger.


Thankfully, these gangstah types usually go for 9mm, .380, .32acp, .25acp, and the .22LR/WMR type guns..and most often in FMJ.


Remember, the Pope John Paul was shot - what?, 6 times? in the torso by a Browning Hipower and survived. Yeah, yeah - aside from the divine intervention claims, it's safe to say 9mm FMJ isn't the best choice. Now, 9mm in a quality HP is a COMPLETELY different animal.


Amazing that they are the same cartridge....
 
.4x is better, bigger is almost always better...but I doubt .45acp hardball would have made a difference. It would be claiming that .10" diameter increase would have killed the guy, vs. just wounding him.


How would it make a difference? Penetrate deeper? Against a 9mm penetration this isn't a claim. The larger diameter caused a nerve or artery to get hit, when the 9mm that is .10" less would have missed? If that is the case, then the nerve or artery got grazed anyhow....
 
Don't Tread On Me said:
.4x is better, bigger is almost always bigger...but I doubt .45acp hardball would have made a difference. It would be claiming that .10" diameter increase would have killed the guy, vs. just wounding him.


How would it make a difference? Penetrate deeper? Against a 9mm penetration isn't a claim. The larger diameter caused a nerve or artery to get hit, when the 9mm that is .10" less would have missed? If that is the case, then the nerve or artery got grazed anyhow....

+1. My brother is an LEO in Georgia. A couple of years ago, a guy he was taking into custody (on multiple felony warrants including armed robbery) produced a knife and ran it into my brother's thigh. He pushed the guy off with one hand while drawing his Glock .40 with the other. He put four rounds of .40 JHP into the guy, striking him once in the abdomen, twice in the chest and once in the shoulder. He lived, and sued my brother for violating his civil rights. :cuss:
 
Given the probable type of bullet (full metal jacket), the cartridge (9 x 19mm Para.) and the distance (point blank) I don't think penetration is an issue.

Bullet placement vs. a vital organ is. :scrutiny:
 
Saw the story on the local news. Some variations what I saw originally...

Initially, doctors said they thought the three wounds were caused by two bullets. One hit as in the leg. The other one/two in the torso. Don't know how the story got to three chest hits. Victim was hit on the run (trying to escape the robbery). Collapsed outside a short distance from the door. TV interviewed him after his release.


I'm thinking the torso hit was an in&out clean wound.
 
I have a friend that worked in a hospital in Gary, IN. He carried a 9mm. They had a patient that got shot 7 times with a 9mm, walked 2 blocks, then collapsed in the ER. He was out in 3 days.

My friend sold his 9mm and got a .45.

Then again, I knew a guy in high school that wanted to do himself in, so he put a shotgun to his chest and pulled the trigger. Last I knew he was still alive.

A pistol could be considered a poor self defense weapon, just some are worse than others.
 
Guys they make really nice illustrated anatomy books with plastic overlays.


Go to Barnes and Noble and look at one.

Think about a Silhouette target. Most silhouettes have their X ring(Hi score) located below the sternum(where your ribs come together breatsbone) there is not a lot of vital stuff located below the sternum. The major vitals are located behind the sternum. You could get hit in the x area and not die because no vital organs are there. The Xring area on most silhouette's has you shooting at the stomach which is a survivable wound I found a link to internal anatomy so take a look and compare the xring on your silhouette to what you would be shootingat on a human


http://lpig.doereport.com/enlargeexhibit.php?ID=642


The xring would be over the stomach and spleen both easily survivable hits.
 
In High School a classmate wanted to kill herself. She got her Fathers .45 and shot herself in the chest. She missed her heart by inches, but was back in school in a week. I asked her why she didn't shoot herself in the head. She responded " Even dead I just couldn't mess up my face":what: :what:

Kevin
 
He pushed the guy off with one hand while drawing his Glock .40 with the other. He put four rounds of .40 JHP into the guy, striking him once in the abdomen, twice in the chest and once in the shoulder. He lived, and sued my brother for violating his civil rights.

Slide lock.
 
I work with a guy who spent time in the joint. He told me of a fellow who was shot 5 times with a .45 and lived. Seems two passed through a door first and 3 where while he was on the ground. :what: Something about recreational pharmaceutica distribution.
 
Since we are telling war stories: I ran a call on two guys that were shot 17 times between the two of them with a 9mm. Both lived.
I ran a call within the last couple years on a guy that got shot right in the center of the chest one time with a .40 S&W hollow point. He lived for three days. He was sitting up and fully functional at the scene.
 
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I do not think the caliber or bullet type involved here is important; the same thing would have happened with a 45 ACP JHP. I don't think any of the bullets actually entered the chest. I suspect all three of these shots were just into the subcutaneous fat and/or muscle around the chest wall.

If any of the bullets had entered the chest itself, even if it had been a 22, you can expect to at least have a collapsed lung. This would be the minimum injury to expect. If a lung collapses, the patient would have had a chest tube place to re-expand it, and would have been in the hospital for usually 3 or more days.

This person was admitted Sunday, and discharged Monday. The bullet never made it into the chest cavity per se, just the tissue around it. His doctors realized this in the ER, and just watched him overnight to make sure their assumptions were correct.

That's my guess anyway, as a surgeon who has been taking care of gunshot victims since about 1992.

A JHP or a larger caliber might have made a nastier wound, but it still would have been a subcutaneous injury that would have been minor. It is remotely possible that a FMJ might have glanced off a rib, where a JHP would have dug into it, fractured it, and gone on in and caused injury, but it is unlikely in this particular situation.

That said, I like 45 ACP hollowpoints. Bigger holes bleed more. But I doubt it would make much difference unless it hits a vital organ.
 
But on the other hand, you hear stories about people who get shot with a .38 FMJ round and die instantly...

Just shoot them in the head, then it makes no difference which caliber you use :)
 
I knew a really big guy

he got shot in the neck at point blank range when he opened his door, it was a .22, he broke the guys nose with his right, grabbed the gun with his left and choked the guy a second later with his right while telling him he was going to put the gun in a very uncomfortable place (not his exact terms but Arts granny and such)...the shot guy was out of the hospital the same day, most of it waiting in Bellvue waiting room.
 
what about .357

Originally Posted by Ala Dan
That's why I carry a .45 ACP, stoked with the best jacketed hollow-points
available~!

Let me reiterate - ditto.
__________________

out of a sp101? do you think that would work?
 
gunsmith said:
out of a sp101? do you think that would work?

Sure, just use a hammer and pound those puppies in there.

***Just kidding, please don't try that for real since that would not only ruin a nice firearm, but the resulting injuries will be the source of endless jokes on THR.

Jubei
 
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