30-06, Cast Bullet, Unique
- Thread starter Hungry1
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Results: DisastrousI just loaded up 50 rounds of the .309"s in 30-06 cases with 10 each of 8-12 gr of Unique. Going to shoot them tomorrow from my 03 Springfield. That rifle is a tack driver with commercial jacketed rounds.
We'll see what we see.
... Back to the drawing board. I'll give the .311"s a try next.
wgaynor
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... happens with cast bullets. A bit more time intensive in finding the right load, but once you do, it's a great feeling.
dardascastbullets
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Get some 4831 and Dacron filler. From memory I used to use 48 grains of 4831 and .5 grains of Dacron. The Dacron tuft was placed on top of the powder column. My old time shooting buddy showed me how to do this successfully. We would shoot 10X's prone at 200 yards with our 30-06 highpower over the course guns. It was a blast to shoot offhand also and clean the target! This is one setback when shooting into a head wind though - you will see the fine 'snow' coming back at you. It is no problem though. Make sure that you size your bullets to at least 0.002" over the groove diameter. And use a proven cast bullet lubricant. Oh, and use the Lyman 2 Step M Expander Die - do not flare the case mouths! This is the most important thing to remember for loading cast bullets successfully!
Thanks for the info.
I am expanding the case mouths with a Lee expander die and then roll crimping.
Were you shooting gas checked bullets? I'm not.
I'm using Unique, which I've read is not position sensitive. Any input on that?
wgaynor
Member
I've used small charges of unique in .30-.30 and 7.62x54r when shooting plain base bullets and have not had problems with the position of the powder in the case. Doesn't mean I won't in the future, but hasn't happened yet.
Well, I hoped you'd have better luck. I think I've given up on non GC'd in my 708.
I've loaded up a bunch of GC'd at 12,13,14,15, and 16 Unique. If that don't work, I guess I'll have to give up on Unique, too.
This is one thing I'm not sad to leave behind. Using GC, at least you don't have to do all that.
dardascastbullets
Member
Again, if you want to have success with your cast bullets, do not flare your case mouths! And do not crimp! There is no need to crimp! The bullets will be held in the case neck via neck tension providing of course that you are using the correct bushing. Slow burning powders such as 4831 produced excellent results for me (this was a result of great teaching from world class high power shooters). I was taught to use the Lyman 411366 with the Hornady gas check. And we weighed each bullet to maintain a Standard Deviation of 0.5 or less. It was meticulous but the results were worth it. Again, do not flare the case mouths and get the Lyman 2 Step M Expander Die. You too will realize excellent results.
wgaynor
Member
Care to give a reason why. Most of us are nerds and like to know the reason behind things.
I would guess expanding the case with the M die and not crimping prevents the bullet from being swaged down.
I wonder if that is why my non GC loads didnt group and all my loads with unique and GC shot well today. Even though the charges overlapped. I dont have an M die. The check may be protecting the base of the bullet during seating.
FTR i flared my nonGC with a punch. No crimp. I didnt do either with my GC bullets and they seated fine using a Hornady seating die.
I wonder if that is why my non GC loads didnt group and all my loads with unique and GC shot well today. Even though the charges overlapped. I dont have an M die. The check may be protecting the base of the bullet during seating.
FTR i flared my nonGC with a punch. No crimp. I didnt do either with my GC bullets and they seated fine using a Hornady seating die.
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I had much better results today with the .311"s and 8-12 gr of Unique.
I found that as the charge increased, the impact was lowered.
A few flyers, but most grouped well with a group of about 3 1/2" at 50 yards. No significant change other than elevation with charges of 9-12 gr.
My next goal is to try and get out to 100 yards.
I found that as the charge increased, the impact was lowered.
A few flyers, but most grouped well with a group of about 3 1/2" at 50 yards. No significant change other than elevation with charges of 9-12 gr.
My next goal is to try and get out to 100 yards.
I am wondering why you would not want ot flare the casemouth a tad?? I use a Lee universal expander and have excellent results. I also do put a crimp on every round I shoot.
I shoot some '06' with Unique and have pretty good results, but for hunting I use 31 gr of XMP 5744 and a Lee 170 gr LFNGC bullet at 2100 fps with outstanding results.
Keep messing with it and you'll get the load you want. Unique will work with pretty much any cast bullet you can come up with and it will almost always perform very well. I load and cast for over 25 calibers and shoot Unique in most of them. If I were to only get one powder, it would be the one.
I shoot some '06' with Unique and have pretty good results, but for hunting I use 31 gr of XMP 5744 and a Lee 170 gr LFNGC bullet at 2100 fps with outstanding results.
Keep messing with it and you'll get the load you want. Unique will work with pretty much any cast bullet you can come up with and it will almost always perform very well. I load and cast for over 25 calibers and shoot Unique in most of them. If I were to only get one powder, it would be the one.
I don't wanna do it because it's an extra step! And if you overdo it, then you need to crimp. And that's another extra step!
BTW, Duckdog. How do you crimp your rifle rounds? Is there any other game in town for bottleneck rifle rounds other than the Lee FCD?
Dardascastbullets mentioned using an M die. So he is recommending a different kind of flare. That die does a differential flare that helps the bullet seat straight. I'd like to give that a try, but it is caliber specific and it still requires an extra step.
I find Hornady's New Dimension rifle seating die does a really good job with my cast bullets. It has a sleeve that drops down and holds the bullet straight. This keeps the gas check squarely over the case mouth, and it has seated every one of my GC boolits, beautifully, without any flare. I actually thought it was gimmicky when I was using only jacketed bullets, but it's pure gold for my cast bullets. With my Lee die, I need a little flare to keep the bullet from tipping inside the die.
BTW, Duckdog. How do you crimp your rifle rounds? Is there any other game in town for bottleneck rifle rounds other than the Lee FCD?
Dardascastbullets mentioned using an M die. So he is recommending a different kind of flare. That die does a differential flare that helps the bullet seat straight. I'd like to give that a try, but it is caliber specific and it still requires an extra step.
I find Hornady's New Dimension rifle seating die does a really good job with my cast bullets. It has a sleeve that drops down and holds the bullet straight. This keeps the gas check squarely over the case mouth, and it has seated every one of my GC boolits, beautifully, without any flare. I actually thought it was gimmicky when I was using only jacketed bullets, but it's pure gold for my cast bullets. With my Lee die, I need a little flare to keep the bullet from tipping inside the die.
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An M die is nothing more than a caliber specific die to put the same flare the Lee universal expander does. You can roll crimp those rounds lightly with the seating die. I do that and also use the LFC depending on the caliber. I am a believer in trying to get the same starting pressure if possible, and crimping helps that, IMO. The Lee dies have a floating seating stem to help keep the bullet straight. You are correct in that a flare dramatically helps keep the bullet square, as well as prevents shaving. I always slightly flare my cases to help seating, seeing that I crimp. I actually bought an M die before my Lee expander and I can't say I liked it, so I went to the Lee die. All you can do is mess with it and do what ends up working for you.
Well, the M die has a step in it. It's supposed to expand the mouth of the case into a diameter just big enough to accept a bullet. But not with an angled flare. So it is supposed to be technically different than the flare you get from a Universal expander.
All I knows about the Hornady seating die is it works for my particular 7mm boolits with no flare. And my Lee die doesn't work with my particular 223 boolits, unless I flare. The boolits quite often tip and then a lot of very obviously bad things follow. When I can keep the bullet balanced just right, it seats fine, just like the Hornady does every time. When it tips, the gas check can gouge the case mouth and boolit scraped and "seated"... at a 20 degree angle. Yeah, that bad!
Thanks for the tip on crimping with regular seating dies. I dunno how I didn't know that.
All I knows about the Hornady seating die is it works for my particular 7mm boolits with no flare. And my Lee die doesn't work with my particular 223 boolits, unless I flare. The boolits quite often tip and then a lot of very obviously bad things follow. When I can keep the bullet balanced just right, it seats fine, just like the Hornady does every time. When it tips, the gas check can gouge the case mouth and boolit scraped and "seated"... at a 20 degree angle. Yeah, that bad!
Thanks for the tip on crimping with regular seating dies. I dunno how I didn't know that.
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