30-06 M2 AP reloads

[GarandMan94]

Hi everyone,
I was wondering if any one knew of any new made M2 AP .30 caliber bullets to for reloading. Also a recommended powder load that is closest to GI as possible. I have used these rounds in the past with my M1 Garand and found them to be more accurate at long ranges than other surplus ammo and even some match grade ammo available.
unfortunately surplus M2 AP ammo has gotten incredibly scarce and prohibitively expensive so i would like to start hand-loading the ammo.
I haven’t reloaded 30-06 before the closest i have gotten to it was to pull the bullets out of some surplus ammo so i could replace the old corrosive primer with i new one then i put them back together using to same components.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm not so sure you need an AP bullet to get the results you are looking for if its accuracy you are chasing try to find a good match grade bullet that has similar dimensions as the AP bullet you are looking for.

As for powders, IMR4895 is the original powder used in the 30-06 by the military but there are a handful of powders which give similar results. I like H4895 best but AA2495 and AA2520 are excellent replacements. Both are similar except AA2520 is a ball powder.
Good luck finding a good load.

 

[Laphroaig]

WC852 was another original 30-06 GI powder. I don't know if that is still available but I think that is what Bruce Hodgdon called H380 when he sold military pull down powder.

 

[Charlie98]

I'm not so sure you need an AP bullet to get the results you are looking for if its accuracy you are chasing try to find a good match grade bullet that has similar dimensions as the AP bullet you are looking for.

That was kind of my thought. There are very nice match-grade 155, 168 and 175grn bullets that would likely be less expensive than trying to find a source of AP bullets. In fact, I would really question your results with AP bullets... generally speaking AP, or in the case of LAP (Light AP) in the 5.56mm, bullets are NOT as accurate as even FMJ bullets because of the variations with the AP tip within the bullet. I may be all wet on that concerning the .30 M1 AP ammos, I've never fired any.

As far as powders... IMR4895 would be my first suggestion, or similar powders in the burn rate, up through IMR4064.

 

[Mk-211]

I think where the difference is in older AP, the cores were made on lathes. You have a steel core that's held to better tolerances and then a copper jacket over it.

Modern match grade bullets will still out perform old AP. You might have to try several bullet types to find one that your Garand likes.

This also means that you'll have to spend some time working up a load.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Just to add to what I said above, I think the Sierra 150gr MatchKing bullet or even the 155gr Palma Match bullet will give the most accuracy and IIRC the AP bullets are 150gr. Sierra also has a 155gr tipped MatchKing which is supposed to be even more accurate but they are very hard to find. I would go with the 155gr Palma Match MatchKing bullet.

An additional question for the OP, when you pulled the bullets on the surplus AP ammo did you happen to weigh the powder charge?

 

[Jim Watson]

Hatchet said that when the National Matches were resumed after WWII and before they resumed making target ammo, "selected lots" of AP were more accurate than Ball. And was therefore shot in service rifle events.

Standard .30 AP bullets are around 165 grains, so 168 gr commercial match bullets would be the place to start.

 

[.455_Hunter]

Ugh- I would be loath to expend my cache of M2 AP projectiles as target ammo.

 

[GooseGestapo]

To closely duplicate the M2, use a 168gr Sierra MatchKing and use 48.0gr of IMR4064.
Though IMR4895 was the original powder, 50+yrs experience indicates that IMR4064 generally is more accurate.
Seat bullets to 3.30”OAL. Will function in either Bolt or M1 actions.

My rifles like the Hornady 155gr AMax over 48.0gr of H4895. @3.275”
This is what I shot with my 1943 Remington 03A3 on first range outing after purchase from CMP. First shot to left was before I put 2 clicks right windage correction.

@100yds.

 

[edwardware]

I have used these rounds in the past with my M1 Garand and found them to be more accurate. . .

Generally you'd be hard pressed to find a less accurate bullet to handload than an AP bullet. Get a 168gr SMK, use Garand data, and go shoot. I think you'll be impressed.

 

[GarandMan94]

My Grandpa was a Sniper in Korea he told me that during the retreat to Pusan he ran out of ball ammo for his Springfield so he pull some M2 AP out of a belt that was feeding a nearby M1919A4 and used those. He said that they were more slightly more accurate at longer ranges than standard ball ammo but slightly less accurate at closer ranges.
Anyway after that particular fight and for the rest of the war he told me he made sure to always have at least 50 rounds of AP. He told me he mostly used it on targets over 600 yards away. He also used it to damage or destroy enemy mortar tubes and machine guns at closer ranges. But i find it incredibly unlikely to need it for that.

 

[GarandMan94]

Ugh- I would be loath to expend my cache of M2 AP projectiles as target ammo.

Recently i have been useing steel cased golden bear ammo for close target shooting since like i said i am running low but I used to have a tonne of AP, I bought 4 cans of surplus belted .30 cal ball about eight years ago. It was supposed to be pure ball ammo but there was some kind of screw up and I received 800 rounds of M2 and 200 rounds of tracers in 250 round belts all for $650. I still have almost all of the tracers since the one time i used them i started a small brush fire but i only have about 150 rounds of AP left.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

The good news is, IMR 4895, 4064 and 3031 are finding their ways back onto the shelves at fairly "reasonable" prices.

I haven’t reloaded 30-06 before

The better news is, reloading .30-06 isn't exactly rocket science. It's actually (IMHO) one of the easier rifle cartridges to reload.
The only "real" bad news - from my perspective - is that finding .308" Sierra 168gr. HPBT MK's is a non-starter.
I consider it one of the best projectiles for the Garand but some experienced shooters disagree based on its heavier weight. Bolt thrust and operating rod torsion in the M1 Garand are classic food-fight topics.
Not gonna go there.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Recently i have been useing steel cased golden bear ammo for close target shooting

Oh my! In a Garand? Nearly gave me a case of the vapors!

 

[Jeremy2171]

As for powders, IMR4895 is the original powder used in the 30-06 by the military

Except it's not. It's ONE of the powders used and it didn't show up until 1943 or so.

Powders from 3031 to varget/H380 all work fine in the garand

 

[Bayou52]

Can't comment on AP projectiles, as I've never shot or loaded them, but for my 30-06 rifles, both military and commercial, IMR 4064 is the powder of choice.

Bayou52

 

[starnbar]

IMR # 4895
Originally known as 1909 Military or Pyro DG (for Diphenylamine Graphited), 500 tons per day of MR # 20 was manufactured for military loading of the original 150-grain M1906 bullet in the .30-06 through World War I.[3] Grains of 0.03-inch diameter were 0.084 inches long with 9% DNT coating.[2] IMR # 1185 was used when military .30-06 loadings shifted to the 173-grain M1 bullet from 1926 to 1938.[3] Grains of 0.032-inch diameter were 0.084 inches long with 7% DNT coating. IMR #4895 was used for loading the 152-grain M2 bullets in the .30-06 through World War II. Grains of 0.032-inch diameter are 0.056 inches long with 5.5% DNT coating.[2]

 

[Jeremy2171]

IMR # 4895
Originally known as 1909 Military or Pyro DG (for Diphenylamine Graphited), 500 tons per day of MR # 20 was manufactured for military loading of the original 150-grain M1906 bullet in the .30-06 through World War I.[3] Grains of 0.03-inch diameter were 0.084 inches long with 9% DNT coating.[2] IMR # 1185 was used when military .30-06 loadings shifted to the 173-grain M1 bullet from 1926 to 1938.[3] Grains of 0.032-inch diameter were 0.084 inches long with 7% DNT coating. IMR #4895 was used for loading the 152-grain M2 bullets in the .30-06 through World War II. Grains of 0.032-inch diameter are 0.056 inches long with 5.5% DNT coating.[2]

Chuckle.... right..

4895 didn't show up until 1943 or so. Pyro DG, IMR 17,F.N.H, IMR 1185, IMR 1186, IMR 4676 were all used to load USGI 30-06 ammo before 4895 came about. 4895 isn't any of those previous powders ..its a new blend therefore not an "old" powder just renamed.

 

[starnbar]

I see so originally known as 1909 military or pyro dg is a lie?

 

[Jeremy2171]

I see so originally known as 1909 military or pyro dg is a lie?

Is Pyro DG and 4895 the same thing?

 

[n2omike]

Quick question regarding 30-06 AP...
I have around 100 rounds of Ball ammo that a magnet will stick to. Some is black tip, and some... either the black paint wore off or wasn't there to start with. Is all 30-06 AP the same, or is one more desired than the other? The difference, if there is any?
Thanks

 

[Laphroaig]

Regular M2 ball ammo was loaded with steel core bullets that will attract a magnet.

 

[Jeremy2171]

Regular M2 ball ammo was loaded with steel core bullets that will attract a magnet.

No..it was loaded with a lead core and a GMCS jacket. OR it was loaded with a lead core and a copper jacket.

 

[Jeremy2171]

Quick question regarding 30-06 AP...
I have around 100 rounds of Ball ammo that a magnet will stick to. Some is black tip, and some... either the black paint wore off or wasn't there to start with. Is all 30-06 AP the same, or is one more desired than the other? The difference, if there is any?
Thanks

You are likely finding steel jacketed M2 ball in your pile. If you can compare the AP bullets to the unpainted ones you will usually notice a difference in shame and crimp.

 

[Nicky Santoro]

Don't know if this helps.....