.30-06 superformance load

[Dups]

Hello,

I have been doing some research regarding the superformance powder in the .30-06. my Tikka T3 lite gives me amazing accuracy with any flavor of hornady SST 150 grain. My handloads using 50 grains of Varget, in federal blue box brass, CCI200 primers, under the 150 grain SST gives me 2769 fps over 5 shots, and a 3/8 inch 5 shot group. well, yes, most would argue, why the heck try and change that.... Well, 2769 fps is enough to kill a whitetail deer at any practical range of 500 yards and below.

I Wanted to duplicate the Factory Superformance load, which chronographs at 3050 fps out of my 22 7/16" barrel, which by the way, is HOT... thats only 200 fps off 300 win mag performance....

Well i picked up the superformance powder, and some hornady brass just to be safe. I pulled 3 bullets on factory loads, and measured powder. I got 63 grains +/- 0.1 grain of powder. to my untrained unprofessional or uncalibrated eyes, the powder is identical. doesn't mean it is... well the load data i found listed on Hodgdon's site lists 60 grains starting load, to 65C grains max loads.

What experiences do you guys have, with the venerable 06 and 150 grain pills over Superformance powder? Did you like it? did you hate it?

Thanks!!!

 

[sage5907]

I don't know anything about superformance powder but I understand it is blended for some specific applications. You could take a different route and try Reloader 17 which is a well proven powder and will get close to your desired velocity. Your 3/8 inch 5 shot group is a pipe dream for most shooters. However, 57 grains of Reloader 17 with a 150 grain bullet will get you close to 3000 fps and it delivers less than MOA in all of my rifles. You could possibly work up to 58 grains if you are careful because Reloader 17 isn't quick to show the high pressure signs that are characteristic with some of the Hodgdon powders.

 

[Dups]

I appreciate your input Sage. I have read lots of things regarding the superformance powder, As the load data wasn't released until the last few years, their really ISN'T any recent chatter on the subject. it seems as if MOST people don't like it. However i know my rifle seems to love the factory loads. I would like to be able to shoot for less than $35 a box however. having the extra OOMPH at range would be nice too, if i wanted to stretch it out.

And just to state, i have done my research. the Hornady SST has a effective velocity from 3300 fps down to 2000 fps. with my Varget load at 2769 fps (again... i know its plenty for every species of north american big game short of big p'd off bears) i go sub 2000 fps at just a hair over 350 yards. probably much further than i have any right shooting at game. With the superformance, that stretches out to just a hair over 500 yards. thats a BIG difference in effective range.

Well that and i didn't buy my hornady Lock n Load press, and dies, and powder, and bullets.... to NOT tinker with stuff and make it better right?????

Edward

 

[Wildfire]

Same here. I know nothing of that powder. BUT, If you get that sort of group, you have the power of accuracy and that will work better than a faster bullet that does not hit where you want it to. Every round and rifle has a sweet spot. You have found yours. It maybe be that there are not more than one sweet spots in most rifles. Just saying.

 

[jmr40]

If you're getting 3050 with 150's you're closer to 400 fps behind 300 WM.

A max load of either H4350 or IMR4350 gives me about 3050 fps with 150's from my 22" Winchester 70. If I back off about 1 gr from max I get better accuracy and between 3000 and 3025 fps, this is the load I use. I get virtually the same speeds and accuracy with either powder, but charge weights are slightly different. I prefer H4350 because it is less sensitive to temperature changes. You can buy the Superfromance powder. Hodgdons website shows 3072 fps with a max load.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I never tried SF powder because my loads using H4350 generate sub 1/2MOA groups @200 yards and according to the data SF will not increase the velocity but for a possible 50 fps. I see no reason to use a powder that was developed to allow high velocities in super short magnum cartridges without compressing the powder in a 30-06 case. You are if course free to do as you please but you already have a kicking load, why change for a little more velocity with a doubtful accuracy increase?

 

[Dups]

This is my Tikka's grouping. just showing off at this point... haha
http://imgur.com/CRg2eQC

 

[ArchAngelCD]

This is my Tikka's grouping. just showing off at this point... haha
http://imgur.com/CRg2eQC

And you want to change that? I would not mess with that kind of success.

 

[Wildfire]

I agree. For an 06 to shoot like that I would never touch that load.

 

[GooseGestapo]

I doubt they're using Superformance Powder in the .30/06 load.
There are a number of powders that will get those numbers in the .30/06. ALL, more economical than the dubious 65.0gr in an '06 case.

First, 53gr of IMR4064, 53gr RL15, 53 gr IMR4320, 59gr H380, 59gr IMR4350,60gr Rl17, 60gr H414/Win760, 60gr H4350.
Depending on barrel, primers, cases, ect,ect, you may or may not see the "ADVERTISED" velocities.
My .375Ruger runs close to 100fps UNDER Hornady advertised velocities, that, with the specified barrel length with the Superformance factory loads. But, 2740fps with a 270gr bullet ain't tossing nerf balls! However, I have gotten the full speed either Reloader17 and it's twin H4350.

3,000 fps with a 150gr BOAT TAIL isn't hard with a 24"bbl and a bolt action .30/06. I've also done it with Win748 (Hornady 1984 manual load) and good ole BLC2. Even got 3,100fps once, but it isn't necessary...
My go-to load for the .30/06 is a Hornady 150gr Interlok over 48.0gr of H4895 for 2,800fps (24"bbl). Neither the deer, nor my sight in targets can tell the difference in 200fps. Only my shoulder and the chrono can tell. My shoulder thanks me as the '06 weighs 6.75lbs.

 

[jmr40]

I agree. For an 06 to shoot like that I would never touch that load.

That load is almost 100 fps slower than my 308 loads and almost 300 fps slower than where a 30-06 should be. There is no reason not to be able to get decent speed and accuracy. Besides, any load that will put 3 shots inside an inch at 100 yards has all the accuracy you can use in the field hunting. Get off the bench and start shooting from field positions and a 1 MOA rifle is every bit as accurate as a .1 MOA rifle.

Yea, I'd give up some accuracy to get more speed, but you don't really have to

 

[LoonWulf]

Im messing with superformance and 165s in my 06 right now, might get to shoot them tomorrow.

 

[Dups]

Well. 63 grains of superformance powder behind the 150 SST looked like a shotgun pattern. Almost 4 inch group at 100 yds. I shot a 1/2 inch 3 shot group using loads a little hotter with the varget. My original groups were with 50 grains. My chronograph got ran over, so I'm going to work up loads until I get pressure signes or loss of accuracy. We shall see! I like the varget!!!!

 

[LoonWulf]

Ill have to try varget, its sitting here waiting for me, but never got around to it. My 165 loads with superformance, seem to be doing pretty well put 4 into a nice cluster than pulled the last shot low on the only group ive shot for record with them. Im running right at hodgdon max, i may work up a bit as im seeing zero pressure signs, and accuracy seems ok.

 

[Orcon]

A 150gr bullet at 2769fps sounds pretty mild for a 30-06. The American Eagle 150gr M1 Garand ammo claims 2740fps mv and those are pretty low pressure loads.

Alliant boasts a 57gr charge of 4000-MR will lob a 180 gr Bear Claw at 2750fps from a 24" bbl.

Western Powders says they can send a 150gr at over 3k with Ramshot Hunter, again a 24" bbl.

 

[alientrainwreck]

I reload my 06AI with superformance and 165 Hornady SST Interlock with a magnum primer and 66.0 of powder getting me 3140fps 15' from crony and is a .5moa load. Superformance has made the 30-06AI all worth it, I just ordered another 8lb jug of it for this one gun. It has become my go-to powder for the 06AI it really brought it to life and it stays good with heavier bullets. I am hitting 300H&H velocities with the stuff BUT IT'S AN ACKLEY IMPROVED. . Sure made it worthwhile.

 

[Nature Boy]

I don't know, but......

57g of IMR4350 seems to be the sweet spot for anything made by anybody that's between 165-168g.......for me in my .30-06

 

[Bart B.]

I got to ask....... What's the best way to claim an accuracy of a load shooting some few-shot groups with it?

A. Average size of all group's extreme spreads.

B. Smallest group fired.

C. Largest group fired.

D. Composite of all groups fired.

Keep in mind every group shot represents how repeatable the ammo and we are shooting it.

 

[LoonWulf]

Im primarily a hunter, we have no real ranges here, so any long range shooting i do is plinking at rocks, thus my views on accuracy testing are probably a little crude.
I personally quote the largest figure from any of the groups i shoot if asked. I disregard ones i know ive messed up, unless the number of oops seems high. I dont quote numbers very often, as i may only shoot one group of 5-10 shots. If all those shots land where im aiming in a decent group i call my load development done.....decent for me is 1-1.5moa, at 200yds I have a hard time holding a 2 inch aiming point with my normal scopes. Longest shot ive made on game is some where just north of 400yds, from a fixed position far more stable than what i usually have to sight my guns from.

 

[alientrainwreck]

The guns that accuracy should be a staple and with factory match ammo that is sopposed to be sub moa I like to set them in my gun vise bolt the vise down solid strap the gun in solid no movement then I like to shot strings of 5 shots 5 times then I'll use the best measurement taken. I then proceed to reload until I can match the best factory load or beat it. All the while shooting through the chronograph keeping an eye on velocity. Not all guns need this but I like to do this stuff and I ain't got nothin better to do . I built my back deck as a place to do all this stuff. Also I generally always shot at 100yrds for this matter. Then the vise goes back to its spot and I sandbag the gun and in the setting position I see if I can match the vise. For me this is just enjoyment.

 

[sage5907]

I'm a very serious hunter and I could care less about how small a group a rifle will shoot. The 30-06 is my favorite hunting cartridge and I judge a rifle by how well I can shoot that particular rifle under hunting conditions. I don't care if it's 70 degrees or 15 degrees or how hard the wind is blowing. I never sight a rifle in using a bench and I never practice using a bench. My method of doing all my shooting is sitting on the ground on my rear using a single shooting stick. I consistently shoot less than minute of angle at 200 meters and almost all of my practice is at 200 meters or further. I know I can place 80 percent of my shots at less than MOA and I know that I can call the shot for any bullet that is an inch or so away from the group. Most often I use 150 grain boattail bullets at around 2900 fps. My primary loads are either 57 grains of Reloader 17 or 51 grains of IMR 4064. My rifles with handle either load without adjusting the scope point of impact. I lean toward the Reloader 17 for hunting and the IMR 4064 for target shooting.

 

[Bart B.]

I like to set them in my gun vise bolt the vise down solid strap the gun in solid no movement then I like to shot strings of 5 shots 5 times then I'll use the best measurement taken.

This is the first time I've seen that method for testing ammo in a rifle for accuracy.

Best part of it is chronographed loads will show which one has smallest extreme spread and standard deviation. When it's tested hand held against one's shoulder, both numbers will be bigger and average velocity smaller.

Accuracy when the rifle's shot off the shoulder can be different because fixed rifle barrels vibrate different than rifles hand held against one's shoulder.

I don't think picking the best (smallest?) of 5 groups as the most accurate is a good idea. It's impossible to tell if all the widest shot's variables were minimum or cancelled each other out. The biggest groups happen when all the variables add up putting widest shots furthest from group center. And all those group's centers aren't at the same place relative to point of aim. Especially when the smallest group fired is seldom the first one fired; it's justs as likely to be the biggest.

Accuracy (precision?) is minimizing all the variables; we humans usually have the biggest ones. Therefore, the composite of all 5 groups best represent the loads accuracy.

 

[Sunray]

Superformance Ammo used to be called Light Magnum Ammo. Not for use in an M1. 2740 fps is below that of .30 M2 ammo. No that it matters much. However, 2769 fps is 81 fps below minimum for a 150 according to Hodgdon.
Superformance Powder is slow burning stuff. Number 130 on the burn rate chart. H4831 is number 128 by comparison. Anyway, pulling bullets on factory ammo tells you nothing about the powder used. You cannot get the powders used in factory ammo.
"...any practical range of 500 yards..." 500 is way too far for any 150 grain bullet. Sighted in 1.8" high at 100, a 150 with 3,080 fps MV, will drop 35.2 inches at 500 with 1,370 ft/lbs. of remaining energy.

 

[alientrainwreck]

My methods have served me well Barton and have earned me a box full of trophies and medals in the late 90's I was 9th in the world. When I went through swat sniper school I learned alot. What works for you great. What I am doing has proven itself, maybe it's not able to be wrote about but only shown. And I'm a serious hunter to here is an idea rather than setting with a shooting stick which I use also when im walking but when setting I find a spot with a limb up above me and I hang a black rubber bungee cord of propped length it gives a good range of motion in all directions if you need your shot lower just give more weight on the bungee if higher let it up.

 

[Bart B.]

Whatever works for you, Allen, is fine with me. But that doesn't mean the smallest group shot represents any load's accuracy. Lake City match ammo occasionally shoots a 2 inch 5-shot group testing it at 600 yards. But the 270-shot composites at best about 10 inches.

Had your loads placing you 9th in international competition been judged by 20-shot groups as I mentioned, you may have placed 1st like I did in a long range international match aggregate over 4 days. I used ammo made on two Dillon progressives with new unprepped cases with 3/10ths spread in charge weight and almost 4/1000ths bullet runout. It tested 20 shots in 2.7 inches at 600 yards in a free recoiling rifle clamped in a machine rest held much like humans do.