.30-06 using 168 Nosler bt

[Dups]

hello!

I have begun loading some new hunting loads with the 168 combined tech Nosler bt. My first few test loads all shot under an inch, most around .8” and almost perfect triangle shaped groups. No weird stringing. I’d like to shrink the groups, so I’m still playing with load development. I basically want a match grade hunting load, that I can use to hunt from deer and hogs, to mule deer and elk. The 150 noslers and hornady SST would probably work, and have been shooting great, however the better ballistic coefficient of the 168 noslers has me interested. .490 by for a relatively I enexpensive hunting bullet. And seemingly accurate enough to hunt out to the bullets limits of expansion (1800 fps minimum per Nosler, ends up being about 550/600 yards) of course I’m not even able to shoot that distance at paper let alone game...

Who here has used the 168 noslers, and what are your thoughts. I’m at 2791 fps avg and I’m still half a grain under max book load. Primers are nice and rounded still!

Thanks!

 

[Mn Fats]

When you say under an inch group, Im assuming you mean @100 yards. .8" is your 5 shot group? That's nothing to sneeze at. If your current load you found already shoots that in your rifle, id say stop playing with the load. You really want to tighten up your group under .8"? Your going to have to now tune your rifle. Or don't fix what isn't broken. Your current setup is already "match grade" for hunting. Sub moa with a decent bullet? My 168 gr nosler bt .308 win @ 2675ish absolutely stop deer. 1/4" groups out of my modified rem 700 but heavy and completely unnecessary for deer hunting.

 

[joneb]

I've had great results with Nosler 150 gr BT and 165 gr Accubond In a Howa 1500 .308 Win. averaging .75" @ a 100 yds
Hosler makes some fine hunting bullets.

 

[ms6852]

Who here has used the 168 noslers, and what are your thoughts. I’m at 2791 fps avg and I’m still half a grain under max book load. Primers are nice and rounded still!

I have not used the nosler's bullets but have used hornady's and I know for a fact that both my 30-06's love the 165 grainers and heavier bullets than the 150 grain. You might find that your rifle will like the heavier bullets as well. At two hundred yards I am getting sub Moa groups. Please keep us informed as to how you do with your new loads.

 

[GooseGestapo]

As many old school target shooters will tell you, pursuing any further improvements with the .30/06 is a fools errand. Due to several design parameters accuracy below what you already have is fruitless.

Sight in +3" at 100yds and GO HUNT!

I've got 4 .30/06. Only one is capable of that level of accuracy. It's a Colt Light Rifle. This was a commercial endeavor where Colt bought the tooling from Mel Forbes of Ultra Light Arms. Basically, the rifle is a ULA, in a cheap stock with a non-adjustable Win Mod-70 style trigger.
The key to its accuracy is a Douglas XX match grade barrel with a match spec. chamber/throat. Occasionally I get .5" 3-shot groups but 5-shot will invariably run .9-1.2". No big deal, it's a 6lb +/- HUNTING rifle... For SE USA, I prefer 150gr bullets, but for Colorado/Wyoming, I switch to 180's for elk.

My other 3 '06's are two Garands and an 03/A3 with a like new barrel (2-groove, 1-me/0-te I got at CMP South last year. One Garand is a CMP "special", shoots under 2moa, I use for the JCG matches. The other, belonged to my brother (deceased). It was "match" reworked in the '80's with a Douglas barrel, NM sights, glass bedded stock, etc. According to his notes, with a 168gr Sierra MK, over 46.0gr IMR4064 in prepped GI brass and CCI L-BR primers, it will shoot 1.2 MOA at 600yds. He took 3rd in the '88 Montana state championship service rifle match. Got his first distinguished points.
I've shot one match with it, missed getting "points" by 2pts at '15 Talladega 600.

At 2,790fps, you're good (I get 2,900from 24" bbl, w/RL17 w/165gr BT).
Again, its hunting season, GO HUNTING!!!

 

[Slamfire]

. My first few test loads all shot under an inch, most around .8” and almost perfect triangle shaped groups.

Two common NRA match loads with 168 SMK's were 55.0 grains IMR 4350 (AA4350 is a copy) and 47.0 grains IMR 4895 (same as AA2495 and H4895) for the 30-06. These loads are slower, about 2600 to 2700 fps, than what you are pushing.

I think if you are getting 0.8 MOA groups, you should be happy. That will be very hard to improve on, in fact, it might take glassbedding the action and other tricks to get the group size down.

 

[GooseGestapo]

To see further improvement, you'll need to set the barrel back, recut the chamber to a .308win MATCH configuration, use match brass, match bullets, match br grade dies, etc. Otherwise you're pursuing futility.

Go hunt!

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Way too many shooters today confuse hunting guns and ammo with competition grade guns and ammo. For some reason some hunters think they need to shoot world class groups to be able to hunt.

The kill zone on a White Tail is about 8" in diameter. If your gun is shooting under an inch @100 yards you can easily take a good shot anywhere up to 400 yards away, much more than most hunters would attempt. Stop obsessing and enjoy your hunt.

Just a side, our grandfathers were shooting rifles that could not hold 3" @100 yards but still fed the family. How? They knew their gun and shot it well without worrying about groups. They would think we are crazy wasting ammo shooting at paper lol.

 

[Dups]

This rifle (Tikka T3 lite synthetic) is a 1/2-3/4 moa gun with most loads. My other pet load is a 150 Nosler bt, loaded over a heavy (but safe) load of h4350 for s muzzle velocity of 3019 fps at 65 degrees ambient temp. Shoots a .65 average 3 shot group if I don’t get in a hurry. Now this is off a bipod and such, in ideal conditions. I disagree that the 06 can’t be a match gun. I’m building a purpose built match 06 in the near future just to do it!

Thanks for the Input!

 

[ArchAngelCD]

This rifle (Tikka T3 lite synthetic) is a 1/2-3/4 moa gun with most loads. My other pet load is a 150 Nosler bt, loaded over a heavy (but safe) load of h4350 for s muzzle velocity of 3019 fps at 65 degrees ambient temp. Shoots a .65 average 3 shot group if I don’t get in a hurry. Now this is off a bipod and such, in ideal conditions. I disagree that the 06 can’t be a match gun. I’m building a purpose built match 06 in the near future just to do it!

Thanks for the Input!

I agree the 30-06 can be extremely accurate. I have a Howa 1500 in '06 am that will do .33" with three shots @100 with my ammo using a 168gr match bullet. That said the match ammo is not hunting ammo and hunting bullets won't do quite as well. Again, very small groups with hunting ammo is not at all necessary. If you miss it's not the ammo, it's the shooter. Most rifles sold today, even entry level rifles will be around 1" @100 yards which is more than enough accuracy to take game.

 

[Dups]

Well, I obsess with speed and accuracy. I practiced probably 500 rounds through my tikka last year, 3 months before deer season. Testing hand loads and playing with every aspect. Then I shot my wall hanger, buck of a lifetime at 33 yards. Go figure. The 168 Nosler bt isn’t a truly match grade bullet but close enough for my uses. If I can hold a half- three quarter moa to 200 yards, then I know my equipment is top notch. Leupold or Nikon glass, premium ammo, etc. if I can do it at 200-300 than anything under it is a push over.

 

[Nature Boy]

I try to get the most accuracy I can out of every rifle I own, including the ones I hunt with.

Why?

Well, why not. It’s one of the reasons we reload, right?

 

[Dups]

Exactly!

 

[Sunray]

The 168 Noslers are pretty much just more expensive. 550/600 yards is way too far for a hunting shot. Energy isn't sufficient.
"...like to shrink the groups..." What for? .8" average is outstanding for a hunting rifle. Like GooseGestapo says, sight in about 3.5 to 4 inches high at 100. Your load is developed.

 

[Dups]

Tough crowd! Guess I’ll just keep quiet then.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Tough crowd! Guess I’ll just keep quiet then.

No reason to keep quiet, this is a discussion. I think what everyone is saying, save the obsession for your target and competition ammo. That is a lifelong endeavor.

 

[someguy2800]

I thought you were going to say it was a tikka. Nice shooting rifle you have there!

Why would anyone want a less accurate gun then it can be?

 

[jmr40]

I've used that bullet on deer and bear here in GA. It works well. A few things.

The Ballistic Tips earned a reputation for over expansion and poor penetration many years ago. Nosler has addressed that with SOME of their Ballistic Tip bullets. Smaller calibers and bullet weights that are most likely to be used on varmints and game no larger than deer are still pretty soft. Any bullet caliber and weight that could potentially be used for elk has been toughened up and are now a good choice for elk size game. That would include any 30 caliber Ballistic Tip heavier than 150 gr. The 150's and lighter are still a soft bullet.

For a hunting load 1" is about all you need. It is nice to be able to produce those 1/2" or smaller groups, but in the field without a bench and sandbags you'll never be able to shoot any more accurately with a 1/2 MOA rifle than a 1 MOA rifle. My goal when loading is all the speed I can get that produces 1" 3 shot groups at 100 yards. If it is less than 1" great, but I figure any animal I miss at 500 yards with a 1 MOA rifle is my fault, not the rifle.

The 168 Noslers are pretty much just more expensive. 550/600 yards is way too far for a hunting shot. Energy isn't sufficient.

Energy doesn't kill anything. My load shooting that bullet is still almost 2000 fps at 500 yards. As long as you're impact speeds are above 1800 fps you'll get the bullet performance to kill stuff. The limiting factor is your ability to shoot that far. I can't do it, about 400 is my personal limit, but lots of people who know their stuff kill deer and elk at double that distance.

Nosler BC's are often optimistic. There have been several independent testers that have shown that many of the numbers shown by bullet manufacturers are optimistic. Others are very close. Nosler was one of those more optimistic than most. Not that it is a bad bullet, it isn't. But the actual BC may not be quite as good as stated.

What does the book say the velocity should be at a max load? Unless you are already close or over try moving up the extra 1/2 gr and see what happens. If you pick up another 50 fps and accuracy stays the same I'd go with it. But if accuracy goes over 1 MOA the extra speed isn't worth it. Don't know which powder you're using but 2850 fps shouldn't be a problem. There are book loads over 3000 fps with that bullet.

 

[entropy]

hello!

I have begun loading some new hunting loads with the 168 combined tech Nosler bt. My first few test loads all shot under an inch, most around .8” and almost perfect triangle shaped groups. No weird stringing. I’d like to shrink the groups, so I’m still playing with load development. I basically want a match grade hunting load, that I can use to hunt from deer and hogs, to mule deer and elk. The 150 noslers and hornady SST would probably work, and have been shooting great, however the better ballistic coefficient of the 168 noslers has me interested. .490 by for a relatively I enexpensive hunting bullet. And seemingly accurate enough to hunt out to the bullets limits of expansion (1800 fps minimum per Nosler, ends up being about 550/600 yards) of course I’m not even able to shoot that distance at paper let alone game...

Who here has used the 168 noslers, and what are your thoughts. I’m at 2791 fps avg and I’m still half a grain under max book load. Primers are nice and rounded still!

Thanks!

I have, and got my best groups with them out of a 742 Carbine. I sighted in with the Ballistic Tips, and hunted with 165 Partitions. I have the box of Partitions I loaded up for hunting in 1980. 4 rounds fired, 3 deer. ( I used an extra, unnecessary round on my first deer.) I have 16 rounds left, and no .30-06.

"Energy doesn't kill anything." Einstein and Oppenheimer might disagree with you on that one....

 

[ms6852]

Way too many shooters today confuse hunting guns and ammo with competition grade guns and ammo. For some reason some hunters think they need to shoot world class groups to be able to hunt.

This is so true though I load for the 30-06 for long range shooting I still have about 200 rounds of Remington Core-lokt that I use for hunting. Heck I just finished last year a box that had $8.99 price tag, now I move to the one marked $9.99

 

[1KPerDay]

Exactly which Nosler 168s are we talking about? SMK and Nosler CC are not hunting bullets.

 

[joneb]

Exactly which Nosler 168s are we talking about? SMK and Nosler CC are not hunting bullets.

Nosler catalog for 2015 lists a .308 165 gr and a 168 gr spitzer under their ballistic tip hunting section.

 

[1KPerDay]

Ah. I was wondering if BT stood for boat tail

 

[gojones]

The only 30-06 I can shoot hunting bullets at sub moa is my browning B-78 single shot with a bull barrel. Most hunting rifles have a tapered barrel with lengths from 22" to 24" and these aren't designed to give match results. Once you get to 1 1/2 inches at 100 yrds. sight it in and hunt. At that level of accuracy, if you can't drop a deer then you have other problems....much practice holding, breathing, and squeezing.

 

[Dups]

I didn’t mean to sound rude. And I’m sorry. I am merely looking for performance on game. I like the 150 ballistic tips, for targets, but I’m a little hesitant that I may be pushing them a little hard. 3019 fps for a 150 grain bullet out of an 06 is cooking!!!! And I’m worried I may get a bullet failure at these speeds but that’s where my rifle really seems to shine with this bullet. My rifle a Tikka T3 lite shoots sub MOA well to the point where the barrel cannot be touched by my hands. Hotter than I want it to be. A string of 10 shots is nothing. 11-20 will open up to around an inch. I’ve never shot that much more, for risk of blowing my barrel. My 150 ballistic tip load easily holds 3/4 moa easily. I feel like a heavier bullet is probably a better choice for terminal performance so I stepped up to the 168 grain ballistic tips. They have the higher BC than the 165 grain bT. I’m shooting the combined technology ones to try and reduce copper fouling, not that it’s probably helping. In western PA I’ve never seen an opportunity to shoot past 200 yards, but, I would like to know that if I am presented with a shot of a lifetime at 400 yards, I want my equipment to be capable. I am prior service military and expert marksman in multiple weapon systems. I take my reloading to extremes. I use Forster coax press, Forster micrometer seating die, and more. I triple check each powder charge, first on an Rcbs 5-10 beam scale, then in a cheap electronic hornady, and back into the rcbs to verify. I trim brass every firing to the same length. I’m weighing each bullet and primer, on my actual hunting loads to make sure nothing is too far out. Is this overkill? Probably. But do I have absolute faith in my equipment? Absolutly! My hunting rifle to me, is a benchrest rifle. Even though it’s an 8.5 lb rifle with a pencil barrel. Somebody forgot to tell my tikka it wasn’t supposed to be that accurate!