.30-06 vs .308

[jim in Anchorage]

There's a bit of a disscusion on this in the 45-70 thread so I thought some of the talk could go here.
Me firmly in the 06 camp. Well I am prejudiced in the matter because I've shot all Alaska game available to a white hunter but musk ox with a 06. With excellent results. My only concern was I was always able to retrieve the bullet (180 Nosier partition) in the off hide of moose past 100 yards. It seemed to me it it was getting marginal at long range, so I switched to .300 Weatherby.
But on topic why would anyone buy the lesser performing .308 over a 30-06?

 

[badkarmamib]

The slightly lighter weight of the short action is the main reason. Easier access to Mil-surp ammo being a close second. However, I prefer the greater range of bullet weights, so mine is .30/06.

 

[VoodooMountain]

Same reason most guys choose 7mm-08 over 7mm mag,
Because most of us aren't shooting Alaskan game.



For my purposes 308 is the better option. I need to shoot reduced recoil loads and the 308 LC brass with H4895 can push a 150gr bullet to 300 savage velocity with minimal recoil.

 

[Llama Bob]

From a practical perspective there's essentially no difference between the two calibers. What one will do, the other will do. The rifles are likewise very similar - typically a few ounces different in weight. Short actions are usually a hair more accurate, but it's a tiny difference. So for hunting it really doesn't matter. Flip a coin. These are calibers that were designed to be the same, and the design succeeded.

.308 does have less expensive ammo and more military and match loads available. That will sway a lot of people less interested in hunting.

 

[RPRNY]

They are both great. If the 1/2" shorter action is meaningful to one, then the 308 is the better choice. If one uses real ballistics data gathered from actual rifles, instead of data from the CNN loading manual, at 180 grs and up, the 30-06 offers a significant advantage. Imaginary 26" 1:10 barrels chambered in 308 Win aside, the 30-06 has a significant edge at the upper weight range given its longer neck allowing less impact on powder capacity and 1:10 twist rate will better stabilize longer bullets. For most game in the lower 48 where the preferred bullet weight will be in the 150 grs - 165 grs range, performance is so similar as to make them indistinguishable. The 308 is much more readily available in semi-autos.

 

[Don McDowell]

Having used both cartridges quite a bit on big game, I find that an elk hit with either round will not know one is weaker than the other.
Long action or short, take your pick their both good cartridges.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

The slightly lighter weight of the short action is the main reason. Easier access to Mil-surp ammo being a close second. However, I prefer the greater range of bullet weights, so mine is .30/06.

I wonder about that. If I buy a model 70 in .308 is the action really shorter and lighter then a 30-06? Or is it just a standard action with the magazine blocked? I don't know.

 

[Corn-Picker]

But on topic why would anyone buy the lesser performing .308 over a 30-06?

I question why anyone chooses a chambering before choosing a rifle. In my opinion, choose the rifle first, and only then do you worry about the chambering.

If you like the Ruger Guide Gun, then buy it. You'll find that it's chambered in 30-06 but not 308, which makes it an easy decision. Likewise, if you like the Winchester Model 70 featherweight compact, you'll find that it's offered in 308 but not in 30-06, which again makes for an easy decision. Even if you find the same rifle chambered in 30-06 and 308, it's usually the case that the 308 has a barrel that is two inches shorter, which in my opinion is more significant than any performance difference between the two. There's not enough difference between 30-06/308, 270/7mm-08, or 25-06/243 for me to worry about.

 

[cdb1]

I prefer 30-06. I'm not exactly sure why.

 

[CraigC]

But on topic why would anyone buy the lesser performing .308 over a 30-06?

If the two are indistinguishable ballistically, why choose a longer, heavier rifle that produces more recoil? If you take the emotion out of it and judge based on merit, which negates much of the myth & legend surrounding the `06, it would be a whole lot less popular.

If one uses real ballistics data gathered from actual rifles, instead of data from the CNN loading manual, at 180 grs and up, the 30-06 offers a significant advantage.

That's unnecessary snark and the PUBLISHED data was provided. You can do better than that.

 

[Llama Bob]

I wonder about that. If I buy a model 70 in .308 is the action really shorter and lighter then a 30-06? Or is it just a standard action with the magazine blocked? I don't know.

Yes, the M70 has both long and short variants.

 

[Steve S.]

I am a .308 guy (Midwest deer and bench time use); I became enamored with the caliber from early '70's Army Sniper School - learned a comfort and respect for the caliber. I have never owned or even shot an '06 but I am sure it will do a substantial job in most circumstances with a capable trigger squeeze. I like my firearms, caliber choices and brands that I have chosen but certainly not enough to attack other opinions for their preferences - that is a very foreign perspective to me - cannot relate to that need to persuade so intensely. Every shooter should own what they wish and enjoy it. In turn, there are so, so many similar choices in the firearms sports today that differences in performance, quality, accuracy (especially for hunting) are academic - I just don't get the anger. Good shooting.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

If the two are indistinguishable ballistically, why choose a longer, heavier rifle that produces more recoil? If you take the emotion out of it and judge based on merit, which negates much of the myth & legend surrounding the `06, it would be a whole lot less popular.



That's unnecessary snark and the PUBLISHED data was provided. You can do better than that.

Wait I thought they where ballistic twins? So why would the longer, heavier 30-06 produce more recoil?

 

[Llama Bob]

the 30-06 has a significant edge at the upper weight range

You're going to get slapped down on this every time you say it, because it's just not true. The performance gap is small at all bullet weights.

Both .308 and .30-06 benefit from a 1:10 twist. Luckily there's no problem finding .308s in 1:10 twist - every Remington SPS, CDL, and model 7, savage model 10, and Ruger american on the shelves for starters. If you want a CFR action, Montana rifle company will happily sell you one. These all have 22" or 24" barrels - the same as the .30-06 versions of the model.

 

[Llama Bob]

Wait I thought they where ballistic twins? So why would the longer, heavier 30-06 produce more recoil?

Because the recoil is based on the bullet weight plus the escaped gas weight (which is equivalent to the powder weight, mass being conserved). So the .30-06, requiring more powder to do essentially the same thing, will have more recoil - maybe on the order of 5-10% more. It's a small effect, but measurable.

 

[Stevenvalleyky]

If the two are indistinguishable ballistically, why choose a longer, heavier rifle that produces more recoil? If you take the emotion out of it and judge based on merit, which negates much of the myth & legend surrounding the `06, it would be a whole lot less popular.



That's unnecessary snark and the PUBLISHED data was provided. You can do better than that.

Increase in weight means less felt recoil. If the 2 guns weigh the same, the 308 will ha e less recoil as it uses less powder.

 

[Jack B.]

30-06 never fired a .308.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

Because the recoil is based on the bullet weight plus the escaped gas weight (which is equivalent to the powder weight, mass being conserved). So the .30-06, requiring more powder to do essentially the same thing, will have more recoil - maybe on the order of 5-10% more. It's a small effect, but measurable.

Yeah I figured the gas weight thing would be the excuse. But they are not doing the same thing. The 06, by your data, is 150 feet per second faster. And the powder weight? 10 grains maybe? The weight of two aspirin tablets? Please. I think some of you view the 06 as a wildly over bore gun that just wastes powder. It's not a .264 Win mag.

 

[Llama Bob]

Yeah I figured the gas weight thing would be the excuse. But they are not doing the same thing. The 06, by your data, is 150 feet per second faster. And the powder weight? 10 grains maybe? The weight of two aspirin tablets? Please. I think some of you view the 06 as a wildly over bore gun that just wastes powder. It's not a .264 Win mag.

The powder weight difference is usually about 15 grains. Total powder weight is 45-60 grains, plus 150 (for example) of bullet. So in that case you're looking at about a 7% difference in recoil. Is it a big deal? IMO, no. I'm comfortable hunting with a 7mm mag and .375 H&H. But it is the physics. Of course the ~5% speed edge of the .30-06 increases recoil too, and the extra weight of the long action decreases it. So there's lots of factors.

 

[RPRNY]

If the two are indistinguishable ballistically, why choose a longer, heavier rifle that produces more recoil? If you take the emotion out of it and judge based on merit, which negates much of the myth & legend surrounding the `06, it would be a whole lot less popular.



That's unnecessary snark and the PUBLISHED data was provided. You can do better than that.

Unfortunately, in addition to offering fake ballistics, you have now utterly discredited your "arguments" by denying the laws of physics, dear boy.

If the two are ballistically equivalent as you incorrectly insist, then a heavier rifle cannot produce more recoil. That is simply not possible. And just as impossible are your claims that the 308 Winchester will deliver equivalent performance with heavy for caliber bullets.

 

[RPRNY]

The Llama's tortured duplicity brings to mind such pillars of honesty as Marie Harf or Baghdad Bob. Indeed, these arguments are so desperately manipulated in an effort to support your blatantly false claims as to be quite laughable. One struggles to understand why you feel the need to distort the truth so, but given your unwillingness to engage in a fact based dialogue, your remarks on this subject must necessarily be disregarded from this point forward.

 

[Nature Boy]

As has been discussed many time before, when you're at the moment of truth, with adrenalin pumping and that big buck in your sights, most folks don't even notice the sound, let alone the recoil.

Now, if you're sitting at the bench, pounding through round after round trying to make tiny groups, the recoil is a factor.

At the risk of sounding like a moderate, I like both.

 

[FL-NC]

I like 308. Here's why:
-There is nothing that I hunt that a 308 isn't enough or more than enough for
- I used 308 in various sniper systems in the army, and I hit what I aimed at up to and beyond 1,000 yards
- With my Ruger American, I can fire cheap FMJ to practice, Federal 168 grain gold medal match for varmints, 150 grain power points for deer or bear, or heavier premium rounds for longer shots if I go out west.
- I like lightweight short action rifles

 

[Bart B.]

Both will shoot all 30 caliber bullet weights; 90 to 250 grains; with rifling twist appropriate, naturally.

Velocity difference with SAAMI spec barrels and pressures is about 100 fps different; higher with the '06.

Accuracy is about 25% better with the 308 with equal quality barrels and ammo.

 

[jmr40]

I used 30-06 almost exclusively for 40+ years until about 7-8 years ago when I made the switch to 308. If I were going to Alaska or Africa I'd choose my 30-06 10 times out of 10 over ANY other cartridge short of 375 mag. I've seen too much data and too many successful hunters, prove that rounds like 45-70, 35 Whelen, 338-06, even 338 WM offer no advantages over 30-06 loaded with 200+ gr bullets, in fact all most of them do is recoil a lot harder than 30-06. The various 300 magnums do exactly the same as 30-06, just farther down range and with more recoil. There just isn't nearly as much data and real world experiences to prove it, but I strongly suspect a 308 loaded with the same 200 gr bullets would be quite effective on the larger game in Alaska or Africa, of course at reduced ranges. But most people just never think of loading bullets that heavy in 308.

Why do I now prefer 308?

In the same weight rifles I get about 20% less recoil. Or I can put together a rifle that weighs under 6 lbs scoped with recoil exactly the same as my 7.5 lb. 30-06. That recoil reduction may not seem like much, but when I go to the range I simply find myself shooting the 308 a lot more because it hurts less at the end of the day. More shooting equals more confidence in the rifle. I find the 308 a bit easier to get better accuracy from too, probably because I shoot it more.

Todays 308 loads beat 1950's era 30-06 loads by about 100 fps. It was the post WW-2 era that cemented the 30-06's legend. I don't see how a round shooting the same bullets 100 fps faster is a negative. Of course modern 30-06 loads are even better, but can I take advantage of them? My 308 loads give me almost exactly the same energy and bullet speed at 400 yards that I'd get from 30-06 at 475 yards.

I'm also a realist! At one time I dreamed of hunting in exotic places for really large game, but I know that will never happen. My 308 serves me well, and if I ever win the lottery and can afford Alaska or Africa I'll go a lot bigger than 30-06. I live in GA, a sub 100 lb deer isn't unusual and the biggest animal I'll hunt here is black bear. Around 200 lbs is about average, but we've had several well over 500 lb taken and a few over 600. Realistically an elk is the largest game animal I'll ever hunt.

I feel perfectly confident in my 308 rifle and my loads to be able to hit and cleanly kill an elk at 400. My 30-06, shooting the same bullets gives me about 50-75 yards more effective range. Is it worth carrying a rifle 1 1/2 lbs heavier for the odd chance of a shot slightly beyond 400 yards? And can I make that shot? Right now 400 is about as far as I'm comfortable. If I were doing it over as a young man I'd go 308 for an all purpose round, skip right over 30-06 and go with one of the 300's for ranges beyond the capability of 308.