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30-06 vs 358 Win

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by fggrub, Apr 14, 2011.

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  1. fggrub

    fggrub Member

    Dec 5, 2010
    I currently have a Winchester Pre64 in 30-06, which has mostly been used on Deer. Thinking about taking a trip out west to go for Elk. Some of my friends have told me that I should get something a little more powerful than the 30-06. Also, looking to go for Moose in Maine or Canada next year. Checking the ballistics on the 180gr 30-06 and the 250gr 358 Win, it seems that the 30-06 packs more energy than the 358 Win - surprised me! Am I looking at this totally wrong? Also, I am trying to keep the recoil to the minimum, otherwise I would get a 300 WinMag or a 375 H&H.

    Would appreciate some feedback.
  2. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

    Sep 21, 2007
    Californicated Colorado
    That's silly. The '06 is wonderful medicine for elk and moose. It's not unusual for my elk camps to contain cartridges that begin with a '2', so don't worry about your .30 caliber rifle. Just worry about your aim, your legs and your lungs.
  3. NCsmitty

    NCsmitty Member

    Jun 29, 2008
    North Carolina
    You already have a great elk, moose cartridge in the 30'06. If you were considering large bear, then I would recommend a 338 Win Mag, but for cloven hooved animals, the '06 will do it all in a rifle that you know.
    The 358 Win is of course based on the 308 case and can do a decent job within range, but it's ammo availability is suspect.

  4. Justin Holder

    Justin Holder Member

    Apr 24, 2010
    If you want a step up in power over the .30-06 you should look into a .35 Whelen. It will handle 250gr bullets better than the 358 win. and give a little extra velocity for toughs 300 yard shots.
  5. GooseGestapo

    GooseGestapo Member

    Jan 6, 2003
    Apples vs. Oranges...

    The .30/06 in your average Sporter rifle (long-action, ~9.0lbs with scope), the .30/06 is all the way around more superior to the excellent but hamstung .358wcf.

    The .358 is superior to the .30/06 when it come to putting it in a compact rifle, and when fed with a premium bullet such as a Nosler .358" 250gr Partition, for SHORT RANGE use on LARGE game such as moose and great bears (brown, grizzley). But then,only when fed handloaded ammo....

    The .30/06 is a PROVEN cartridge when fed a 200gr or heavier bullet, but guides prefer a larger gun for "STOPPING" a wounded and/or enraged bear, such as a cornered sow with cubs or a wounded animal, or one defending a carcass. There is a difference between the .30/06 and the offspring .338/06 and .35Whelen. But, it's not THAT MUCH difference. I went with the .338/06 rather than the Whelen I'd long planned on building as the .338 has superior downrange ballistics to either the .30 or .35. At ranges beyond 200yds the .30/06 IS superior to the .35Whelen. No doubt about it.

    The advantage of the .30/06 is not with the nebulous "foot/lbs" of energy. It's in the construction, ballistic coefficient, and sectional density of the premium bullets that are common and easily available in factory loaded ammo, as well as handloading componenets. Both Barnes and Federal offer the Triple Shock and X-Bullets, as well as Federal, Remington, and others offering the premium bullets such as the Nosler Partitons, Swift A-frames, and Woodleigh Weldcore, not to mention the monolithic and bonded bullets by Hornady. There is/are only one factory load available for both the .35Whelen, and .358wcf as far as I know, and are only in standard line ammo. However, the 250gr Corlokt is excellent in the .35Whelen, but is loaded quite lightly, like 2,300fps at the muzzle. Less from a 22" sporter. I know, as I chrono'd some ammo for a fellow at the range one day. It was a Remington M700 "Classic". The 200gr ammo went 2,600fps and the 250 ran 2,290fps. I convinced him he needed to start reloading by showing him my .338/06 and ammo loaded in .30/06 once fired range pick-up brass...... Since that time, the 250gr load has been dropped and only the 200gr loading is available. The .358wcf is the 250gr Winchester SilverTip, which is excellent on deer, perhaps elk, but it too lightly constucted for large game. They only chrono'd ~2,160fps from a friends BLR in .358, but killed deer very reliably. But, we recovered too many of them expanded to about 0.80" to be comfortable using them on anything more than hogs or black bears.

    I've been drawn for an Elk tag in Wyoming this fall. Where I will be hunting also has grizzlies, as well as black bears. I'll be taking the light-weight .30/06 and my .338/06 (heavy at 10lbs, not something I carry very far). I, however don't particularily worry about the bears except on abandonded carcasses........ Then, I tred lightly and carry another friend as backup, and help for packing out the remains.... I'll likely feed the .30 with 180gr Nosler Part's, and the .338 is loaded with 210gr Partitions @2,800fps, and 250gr Hornady PtSpt "Interloks" @ 2,600fps.
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2011
  6. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

    May 26, 2007
    The 06 is hard to beat for what you want. The 358, 35 Whelen or several other larger calibers MIGHT put down a big animal a bit faster, but you limot your range with those rounds.

    A 7mm mag or 300 mag would give you a little more effective range than the 30-06, but not much. I'd use what I had.
  7. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

    Sep 17, 2007
    Eastern KS

    Put your money in proper bullets for the 30-06 and it will kill anything that walks in the lower 48 DRT.

    Look at Nosler Partition or other premium bonded-core hunting ammo for the really big stuff.

  8. Flfiremedic

    Flfiremedic Member

    Sep 25, 2007
    I'd go with the 06. If you want to upgrade, the 35 Whelen gets it done! I love mine. Hearing good things of the 338 Fed if you want to go with a short action.
  9. CraigC
    • Contributing Member

    CraigC Member

    Jan 27, 2006
    West Tennessee
    The .30-06 may get the job done with boring regularity but I'll take any excuse I can get to buy another rifle. IMHO, nearly anything would be more fun and interesting. Get the .358 or a .35Whelen if you want, they 'are' a bigger hammer. ;)
  10. Robert

    Robert Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 7, 2006
    Texan by birth, in Colorado cause I hate humidity
    Yup, Elk is armor plated here in CO...

    06 is plenty fine.
  11. wombat13

    wombat13 Member

    Feb 16, 2010
    If you really want to go with something bigger, check out the .338-06 as GooseGestapo mentioned. It is a very efficient cartridge. In another thread I discussed my findings when I compared cartridges against the .30-06. The .338-06 is on of the few cartridges that offers a greater increase in energy than its increase in recoil. A 210 NP loaded to 2750 fps offers about 25% more energy than a 180 gr. .30 cal @ 2700 fps, but only about an 18% increase in recoil. The increase in recoil is much greater than the increase in energy for most magnum cartridges.
  12. SwampWolf

    SwampWolf Member

    Sep 18, 2005
    North Central Ohio
    And they are not that limited in range distance; certainly a long ways (pun intended :)) from being short range cartridges in terms of their trajectories.
  13. TGReaper

    TGReaper Member

    Mar 8, 2011
    Canada The Great White North
    If what I had was my 30-06 I would be quite happy to take it to hunt elk or moose.
    Because I am fortunate enough to have them I would likely take my .375 H&H for decent conditions and my .300 Win.Mag carbine ( stainless and plastic) for bad weather.

  14. 788Ham

    788Ham Member

    Sep 24, 2010
    Hills west of Denver
    Take the '06 and don't look back, unless that is you see a griz! :eek:
  15. Kachok

    Kachok Member

    Oct 3, 2010
    Palestine TX
    Don't think of it in terms of "energy" heavier slower moving bullets peneatrate deeper, and do more damage on the far side of the hide and fat then faster shock bullets do. Many thousands of bear/elk/moose have been taken with the "puney" 30-30 before they were replaced with faster and faster calibers. Not saying the slower calibers are more effective, just that they kill a little different. Think of heavier bullets as just being more efficient with the energy they do have, that puts it into a realistic context.
  16. Johnny Guest

    Johnny Guest Moderator Emeritus

    Dec 20, 2002
    North Texas
    An ought-six should be plenty

    Some years ago while preparing for an elk hunt, I bought a .338 Winmag. I spent many happy hours working up and testing loads. Elder Son was taking a .300 Winmag on that hunt and we spent a lot of time on his loads as well.

    I also felt the .338 would give me as comfortable edge if ever I got to hunt the big bears. (This was before I had a serious bout of heart trouble. :( )

    I now have a couple of other large bore rifles, just 'cause I like them. though my days of stumbling up and down mountains are behind me. I can tell the difference between wanting a big rifle and needing one, though. If I were to get another chance at elk, I wouldn't feel a bit undergunned with my old .30'06 and proper 165 gr. loads.

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