.35 Whelen vs .358 Win

[m0ntels]

I've been looking at both carts lately and I got to wondering...

For the most part people will agree that the .308 Win and .30-06 are about equal, and the biggest difference is the short/long action needed for it. So why is the necked up .30-06 considered a 300yd cart and the .358 is treated like a 100yd cart? If the parent cartridges are so similar, why are these 2 so different?

Randy

 

[priv8ter]

Actually...

Up until a few minutes ago, I knew nothing about the .358 Winchester, so I'm going into this fairly unbiased. I am comfortable talking about .35 Whelen ballisitics, having just bought one.

It's strange to hear you call the .35 Whelen a 300 yard round. Just a few weeks ago, I had to go round and round with a fellow THR'r about the wisdom of using a .35 Whelen at longer ranges for elk. But, with Federals 225gr load, and many hand-loadings, the Whelen is a capable 300 yard round.

As for the .358 Winchester, just looking at this website:

http://www.gunblast.com/Browning-BLR358.htm

shows that the .358 is not just a short range cartridge, realisitically. He talks about a 200 gr load that only has 4 inches of drop at 250 yards...not too shabby. It would appear that the 358 is a victim of bad press, and anemic factory loadings.

If you are a reloader, you should be able to achieve fairly comparable ballistics. A quick check online of factory loads gives the .35 Whelen a considerable edge.

greg

 

[Polishrifleman]

Not quite sure on the title, vs. the question. Most guys look at the size/shape (sectional density and other terms) of the bullet and equate it to stopping power and penetration. Distance of shot is generally a trajectory issue where again the shape of the bullet plus the powder pushing it come into play. You are comparing a 150gr bullet to a 200 plus grain bullet on average which will equate to more drop over distance. Are we talking huge not really 2-4 inches but at that distance you don't want a wounded animal running around because you were off by 2-4 inches. Hopefully that helps.

 

[steveno]

I had a Browning BLR(steel reciever) in 358 a long time ago. it was a good shooter and well made except that the stock design sucked and it kicked a lot. I had a low power variable Leupold scope on it. the best shooting bullet I found was the 250 grain Speer spitzer. I think 300 yards might be pushing it a bit. Ruger made their M-77 in it a long time ago and if I could find of them but I think the collectors have them. the 358 is a good cartridge as is most of the cartridges made from the 308 case

 

[Tony Williams]

Does it have somthing to do with the fact that the .358" bullets used in these cartridges are long and heavy, and the length uses up a bigger percentage of the .358 Win's (already smaller) case capacity than the .35 Whelen's?

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum

 

[db_tanker]

With some handloading a 358 can do many of the things a Whelen can do...same for the 308/30-06 comparison.

Same issue seperates both...one is for short actions and the other is for long.

A 358 in a standard mauser action would be a nice addition...you have plenty of room to seat that bullet out there...next project of mine, I am thinking.

 

[WYO]

As noted earlier, the 225-250 grain .35 caliber bullets take up a lot of the short case, so the .358 is probably no more than a 250 yard catridge. Also, bear in mind that a lot of .35 Whelen reloading data is mild because of the amount of old wildcat guns floating around. A lot of people with modern factory chambered Whelens exceed load book maximums and get higher than published velocities.

 

[CowboyEngr]

The 358 Win and 35 Whelen are both excellent cartridges and very similar. Case capacity is about the only real difference. 300 yds probably stretches either one, but they are both certainly capable if a person familiarizes himself with the trajectory and practices enough. Actually, accurate range estimation of the shooter is a bigger barrier than the cartridge itself. In reality, the 35 Whelen probably handles the 250 gr. bullets significantly better due to being able to burn the slower powders better, but on 200 gr (and maybe even 225 gr) bullets, there is not that much difference.

I think the 35 Whelen actually got a little better press when it was a wildcat. Gun writers often promoted it's ability to handle BIG game beyond what it's paper figures would indicate. I don't think the 358 Win ever had that pleasure.

In reality (men being men), when a person makes that step beyond 30 caliber, the mentality of "bigger is better" takes over and the belted magnums, with that huge case, appeal to that mentality.

The 358 Win suffers from having a big (but not huge) bore size and a moderate case capacity. That type of cartridge is well balanced and very capable with a lot of big game, but it doesn't market itself real well to the types that want "BIG". The 35 Whelen has done a little better in the market place because it is a little "BIGGER".

Honestly, I doubt the elk that is shot with either one can tell the difference.

 

[CowboyEngr]

In addition, on anything other than pronghorn antelope, if I couldn't get within 250 yds of what I was hunting I'd question my hunting ability.

 

[CowboyEngr]

I wasn't trying to flame anybody with that 250 yd. remark. Just trying to say that a cartridge that has decent trajectory out to 250 yds. is almost always plenty good for me.

 

[BigG]

Get this -

Back years ago, Elmer Keith no less, touted 35 Rem as great big game medicine. I guess compared to a 30/30 it is; but the 35 Remington is positively dinky compared to a 358 Win. All of em work, I guess.