30-30 Brass life

[Peakbagger46]

How many loadings can I expect to get out of my 30 WCF brass? I am currently loading 170g Core-loks over 32g Rel 15, but may up the charge to 33g. Rifle is a 2004 Win 94 and I am planning on trimming and full-length resizing the brass for each load.

 

[Cosmoline]

I reloaded that round for years, and I actually don't remember having to toss any brass due to age. I don't even remember needing to trim it much.

To compare with a similar rimmed cartridge at higher pressures, the 54R Winchester brass only gives me about three or four handloads before starting to show weak spots. Lapua and Norma about twice that, but even they start to show their age.

 

[rcmodel]

If you forget the rim is there and only partially size to headspace off the shoulder they will last a long time.

The problem is two-fold.

The 94 actions locks on the rear of the bolt. That makes the action springy compared to a bolt action with front locking lugs.

And I have seen more variation in rim thickness with 30-30 cases of different brands then any other rimmed caliber I have reloaded. That makes headspacing perfectly off the rim marginal at best.

rc

 

[qajaq59]

I shoot 99% cast in my Winchester 94, but even with hunting loads they last a long time. Although I do prefer the light loads most of the time for targets. It's a fun rifle and seems to love cast, but shoots jackets just as well. If you can find a deal on say 500 to 1000 cases and used them in turn, it'll be a long, long, time before they ever need trimming again. That what I did and I don't remember the last time I needed to trim them. And I shoot a lot.

 

[Peakbagger46]

How are you guys getting a good crimp without trimming? My Lyman and Speer books both said I had to trim the brass for each loading... the Lyman book also says to toss brass after 4 trimmings. Any truth to that latter?

 

[Cosmoline]

I never noticed a problem getting crimps with the standard Lee set. But then again it's not a round that requires mongo strong crimp--the recoil is very mild.

 

[Peakbagger46]

That makes sense. This is the first rifle round I've made that requires a crimp and it didn't make sense to me that I would have to trim these cases when my .357 and .45LC cases crimp just fine without a trim... Maybe I will try just making sure they are within max OAL and try loading them without a trim.

 

[rcmodel]

the Lyman book also says to toss brass after 4 trimmings. Any truth to that latter

Not necessarily.
The only surefire way to tell if the brass has reached it's useful life is by feeling for a stretch ring inside the case with a L-bent wire or paper-clip.

The stretch ring inside the case corresponds to the bright ring on the outside of the case about 1/2" or so ahead of the rim.

That is where the thicker tapered case wall ends, and that is the point all stretching occurs.
Right there is where the case will break if it is going too.

As for crimping with the bullet seating die.
You will have much better results if you trim the cases to the same length at least once after the first firing.

If you don't want to have to trim, get a Lee FCD die and crimp with that.
It does not base the amount of crimp on case length, and it is impossable to bulge a case shoulder on thin brass like the 30-30 if one is too long.

Photo stolen from one of 243winxb's posts:
http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/338.jpg

rc

 

[W.E.G.]

What case gage are you using?

 

[qajaq59]

I mainly want mine to all be the same length, so they'll crimp in the same place each time. But unless I'm loading them pretty hot, they don't seem to grow a whole lot. So no, I don't trim every time. (There may be others that do.) I do check a few before I start priming them though. But if you start at the suggested trim length it gives you a lot of room before they need it again. I usually fire 50 to 100 at a time and once fired they go to the back of the line. As the others are fired they progress to the front. Once I have fired every case I start over, so every case is fired the same amount of times. And I keep track of how many firings that is.

 

[Peakbagger46]

Does trimming hurt the brass? I don't mind trimming if it is not going to shorten case life.

 

[rcmodel]

No.

It won't hurt it nearly as much as not trimming it and crimping it with all different case lengths.

You WILL eventually crumple some shoulders on the long ones if you have the die set up to crimp the short ones correctly.

IMO: I think you might be getting a little too hung up on long case life though.
In the grand scheme of things, buying new brass occasionally is much less expensive then medical bills and new glass eyeballs!!

rc

 

[ScratchnDent]

If you forget the rim is there and only partially size to headspace off the shoulder they will last a long time.

Hmmm, I will have to try that. Thanks for the tip!

I have always full length sized mine mainly because I have read that it's the thing to do with lever actions.

To the OP's question: I have only been loading the 30/30 for about 5 years, but I have yet to lose a case due to stretching. My oldest batch has probably 10 firings with a load a bit hotter than yours. 33.1 gr. R-15 under a 170 CoreLokt. I have always full length sized them and trimmed to the same length after each sizing, and used a Lee FCD to crimp, rather than a roll crimp.

 

[qajaq59]

I have always full length sized mine mainly because I have read that it's the thing to do with lever actions.

That's the best way to handle them. Especially if you are going to use them for hunting. Having a jam when a boar is heading your way can be a bit disconserting. LOL

 

[rcmodel]

There is a big difference between setting the sizing die to push the shoulder back 1/8" and headspace on the rim, and having hunting ammo that won't chamber.

I didn't say to neck size it.
I said to adjust the die to control headspace instead of depending on the rim to do it.

Part of the die adjustment process is to insure the cases will chamber in your rifle.

rc

 

[Cosmoline]

Full length resizing is also harder on the brass. I always do it anyway because I'm constantly changing rifles. I may use the same brass for many rifles over many years.

 

[qajaq59]

I said to adjust the die to control headspace instead of depending on the rim to do it.

I used to do that with the Marlin I had. I had a special spacer so the die was backed off exactly the same every time. But the Winnie has better headspacing then that Markin did.

 

[Eb1]

I shout about 5 to 8 loading of full strength, and then toss them into the fun pile. I have had two necks split only. I have cases with upwards of 14 loading or more. You just have to weed out the ones that don't look good anymore. Buy the ABCs of reloading, and read it.

 

[Peakbagger46]

Thanks all. I think I will stick to trimming each time and watching for case wear. I will (as I don't want glass eyeballs) toss the brass when it starts to look worn. I cant wait until this fall to try and take a mulie with the good ol 94!

 

[Eb1]

It is a good feelin' to take a game animal with a lever gun shooting ammo you loaded. Good luck to you.

Just keep an eye on your brass, and after you shoot them a few good times with full loads. Start a batch, and use those to load weaker loadings for practice shooting off-hand and kneeling. Your brass will last a long time if you do that, but always use caution, and inspect your ammo.

 

[qajaq59]

Thanks all. I think I will stick to trimming each time and watching for case wear.

It's a little work. But if it makes you more confident in your ammo, then I'd say it's a good idea. It wont hurt your brass and your crimps will be good every time. There is nothing wrong with being cautious.