30-30 Primer Depth

[Grunkle]

Problem with primer seating for 30-30 lever action Winchester 94. I’ve been reloading since 1995, mainly pistols - most calibers. Started reloading rifle ammo this year with Rem .223 and had successful results. Made a few 30-06 dummys (no powder, no primer) in preparation for the arrival of my new CMP M1 Garand. Loading with the Dillon 650 I have never before experienced any significant problem with primer seating or depth. However, in reloading a few 30-30 rounds recently I noticed (by finger touch) that a few of the primers were high and most were flush. I was afraid that these high or flush primers might induce the dreaded tubular magazine explosion. All the store-bought 30-30 ammo have primers seated to about 0.005. So I went to the range with my trusty Winchester 94 and fired a few - one at a time. One of the primers was so high (a few thousandths above and slightly cocked) the Win 94 would not allow the bolt to seat. One of the rounds misfired but the firing pin made a good dent. On 2nd try it fired OK. All others (13 rounds) fired OK, one at a time. After depriming these shells I paid particular attention to the condition of the primer pockets. After cleaning with a primer pocket brush I measured each depth. Depths ranged from 0.1240 to 0.1231. Primers measured 0.1220. I used the Dillon swager on all pockets that were under 0.1270, primed them and measured the depth. One is 0.005, a few are 0.001 and others are 0.000 (flush). Cleaning and swaging helped but, I don’t yet understand these differences and whether or not these variations could be dangerous in the tubular magazine. Comments Please?

I apologize for the lengthy post. This is my first and I’ll try to do better in the future.

 

[jcwit]

For years and years lever action 30/30's and .32 Win. Spec. and other calibers for tube fed rifles used flat tiped, led tiped bullets. I doubt very much that you need to worry about

the dreaded tubular magazine explosion

.

With that said, primers should always be seated a few .003 to .005 below flush.

 

[Slamfire]

However, in reloading a few 30-30 rounds recently I noticed (by finger touch) that a few of the primers were high and most were flush. I was afraid that these high or flush primers might induce the dreaded tubular magazine explosion. All the store-bought 30-30 ammo have primers seated to about 0.005. So I went to the range with my trusty Winchester 94 and fired a few - one at a time. One of the primers was so high (a few thousandths above and slightly cocked) the Win 94 would not allow the bolt to seat. One of the rounds misfired but the firing pin made a good dent. On 2nd try it fired OK. All others (13 rounds) fired OK, one at a time. After depriming these shells I paid particular attention to the condition of the primer pockets. After cleaning with a primer pocket brush I measured each depth. Depths ranged from 0.1240 to 0.1231. Primers measured 0.1220. I used the Dillon swager on all pockets that were under 0.1270, primed them and measured the depth. One is 0.005, a few are 0.001 and others are 0.000 (flush). Cleaning and swaging helped but, I don’t yet understand these differences and whether or not these variations could be dangerous in the tubular magazine. Comments Please?

Your experience is interesting. A primer needs bottom end support for the anvil. The primer compound is between the cup and the anvil. You had to hit one cartridge twice. I believe your mechanism was seating the anvil.

I suspect there are a lot of high primers in reloaded ammunition. Bolt gunners can be the sloppiest reloaders in the world and get away with it. They can crunch fit oversized cases to the chamber, and because they don’t have high bolt speeds, I have never heard of a high primer going off during the feed cycle of a bolt gun.

My 308 ammunition has to function through my M1a’s or the bolt rifle. High primers could cause premature ignition in a gas gun, so I ream the primer pockets to depth with a tool. If you are having high primers even after cleaning the pocket and swaging the pocket, maybe you should look into “primer pocket uniformer” tools.

I would think it is dangerous to have a bullet resting on a high primer in a primer tube. Recoil speeds are extremely quick and I do believe the accounts of primer ignition in under barrel magazine tubes.

 

[jak67429]

Do you have your shell plate adjusted correctly? On a progressive press if you shell plate is too loose your primers will not seat correctly.

 

[Grunkle]

Thanks guys for your comments and help. I’m accused of being super cautious by some of my underlings. And I suppose that’s true when I’m reloading a new (to me) caliber for the first time. Don’t like surprises. The bullets I’m using are 170 gr CoreLokt, lead, round nose. I also have some Sierra 150 gr flat nose HP’s which I have not yet tried. The only other ammo that I have used with this lever action 30-30 has been store-bought lead, flat point.

After reading your comments I de-primed all the 30-30 brass with high primers (depth less than 0.003") using the rifle in the backyard. Then I re-cleaned the pockets, measured pocket depths, swaged all pockets that were under 0.1270" again, reloaded the primers, and measured the depth. During that process I tightened the shell plate as far as possible until just barely being able to get rotation. All of these primers felt better, however, some were flush or 0.001 or 0.002 below flush. I ran these through the primer seater again and again, pressing as hard as possible - much harder than ever before and now they are all below 0.003". Some are below 0.005". One went to 0.009".

I also found a “primer pocket uniformer” on eBay but ordered one from Midway. But my initial thoughts on the use of such a device were that it could lead to reducing the material thickness of the brass base, possibly below mfg specs, with unknown consequences. I also believed that the Dillon model 600 swager not only shaped the pocket diameter, primarily to remove the military swage, but also pocket depth. I might talk to Dillon about that since the manual that I have does not cover this in any detail.

My conclusion, so far, is that rifle ammo-reloading is much more tedious than pistol ammo and 30-30 is the most difficult (so far).

 

[NCsmitty]

Welcome to THR, Grunkle.

Please don't be offended but processing 30-30 cases is not that difficult. I've never had to swage any primer pockets, or use a uniformer to prime my cases.
I've used a simple Lee priming tool for the last 30+ years, and it's always functioned exactly as designed if I clean my primer pockets properly. If the brass was manufactured properly, the primers will bottom out at .004" below flush.
Perhaps your equipment needs further adjustment or a part replaced to get more consistency.



NCsmitty

 

[Slamfire]

But my initial thoughts on the use of such a device were that it could lead to reducing the material thickness of the brass base, possibly below mfg specs, with unknown consequences.

This fear is actually unfounded as long as the primer pocket tool is cutting within specs.

I took one set of 308 brass 22 or 24 reloads in a M1a. (Cases were lubricated and this was the primary reason I did not have case head separations in five reloads). Anyway I found the primer pocket collapses inward over time. The bottom of the case is sort of like an upside down cup. Pressure on the middle of the thing causes the rim to spread sideways and the center to collapse in. I had to ream the pockets to depth or the primer pocket got too shallow.

If you section your brass you will see that .001” or .002” brass removal does not materially thin the primer pocket


I have been using this K & M Services carbide cutting tool, or primer pocket uniformer.

http://www.precisionreloading.com/m...ore_Code=PRE&Category_Code=PRIME_POCK_CORR_KM

http://www.precisionreloading.com/m...Code=KMCL131&Category_Code=PRIME_POCK_CORR_KM

 

[P-32]

I agree with what's been said so far. I uniform all of my primer pockets as I've found for making smaller group size it has given me the most bang for the buck.

I also use the Lee Auto prime which is a hand held tool. I like to "feel" the primer seat at the bottom of the pocket. I load for 30-30 as well as 06, 308 and 223. I could go one but this covers what we need to talk about with the coming M-1.

Like SlamFire said the primers have to be seated correctly as the M-1, M-14/M1-A and M-16/AR's all have free floating firing pins. I use CCI's for the M-1 reloads which also includes the 308 as I have a match tuned M-1 Garand in 308.

 

[Grunkle]

I bought a Possoum Hollow primer pocket uniformer, rechecked all the shells, some slight brass came out of some of the pockets. I rechecked the adjustment of the shell plate and tightened until it was difficult to rotate. Reloaded all of these rounds and all primers are now seated between 0.002 and 0.009 below flush. Haven't had a chance to test fire yet but my concerns are mostly over. In the meantime the CMP M1 Garand arrived and I've concentrated on loads for that with great success so far. BTW - I'm pleased with the CMP product for the money. Thanks again for all of your contributions.