Looking at the PDF that Hodgdon put out on Trailboss, it claims the formula is: http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-education/tips-and-tricks/low-recoil-loads Find where the base of the bullet to be loaded is located in the case and make a mark on the outside of the case at this location. Then fill the case to that mark with Trail Boss, pour into the scale pan and weigh. This is your maximum load. Pressures will be below the maximum allowed for this cartridge and perfectly safe to use! Take 70% of this powder charge weight (multiply the maximum load by .7), and that is your starting load. Start with this beginning load and work up to your maximum charge. I tried 8 grains for 20 rounds, and 9 grains for 20 rounds, all charges well below the base of the bullet, not even at the shoulder yet. All shot fine, granted I had to adjust the Williams Peep up on the Win94. It shot about 12-15" low at 75 yards. Looking at the Hodgdon Reloading data on their website. Hodgdon Trail Boss 6.5gr 997fps 20,500 CUP 9.0 grain 1,195fps 29,100 CUP Lyman 49th and 50th states MAX 8.5 grains at 1102fps, at 37.400 CUP. I have no idea what the actual fps was, I didn't bring a chronograph this time, my jeep was full. Anyway, looking at the data and knowing there is still quite a bit of room in the case empty for more powder, if one were trying for the MAX load with the "formula", wouldn't it be pretty easy to exceed the Max CUP even though Trailboss supposedly is safe at Max? I'm curious has anyone ever seen over pressure signs with Trailboss on a 30-30? I must admit, it was rather amusing to hit the 8" gong at 75 yards with these low/no recoil loads. Without a doubt, I will continue to play around with this donut shaped powder. Anyway, have a great night and sorry for the rambling.