30 carbine Lee Factory Crimp die

[zeke]

Am starting out loading for the 30 carbine , so bought a Lee fc die. Couldn't get it adjusted down far enough to actually put a crimp on? Bought another one, same problem. Anyone else experience this? Trimmed all the brass down to recommended minimum lenght 1.280. Have used alot of other Lee fc rifle dies with no problem. 2 out of 2 seems to indicate i am missing something, or Lee had problems with this die?

Thanks, am also planning on contacting Lee directly.

Any other comments on loading for the 30 carbine also appreciated.

 

[rcmodel]

You don't crimp .30 Carbine.

It headspaces on the case mouth, just like a straight wall pistol case.

All you need is enough taper crimp to straighten the case mouth, after belling it very slightly to get the bullets started.

A properly finished round should measure .336" or thereabouts at the case mouth with the bullet seated.

rcmodel

 

[zeke]

Thanks for the advise, but am of a preference to taper crimp straight walled rounds, which in the 30 carbine is not, even if it does headspace on the case mouth. Also the Lee factory crimp rifle dies are usually adjustable from a very light taper crimp to a hard stab crimp.


Anybody have any experience with Lee's 30 carbine factory crimp die?

 

[mkl]

Zeke:
Question: Are you using a carbide sizing die on your 30 carbine?

 

[Mike 56]

I use a M1 Carbine FCD die on 32-20 brass that i size with M1 Carbine die for my 1895 Nagant. The die works good on my 1895 loads.

Mike

 

[zeke]

mkl-yes used a rcbs carbide die, but had to lube the cases anyway. Then trimmed all the brass to min length. This was over 500 Win once fired cases, and close to 2000 mixed pick up brass (donated by an older friend).

With trimming the RCBS crimper works for a light taper crimp, but have come to prefer LFC for rifles, even if only appliing a very light crimp.

 

[mkl]

Zeke:

The reason I asked about the carbide die is that generally they size the case to only one diameter, i.e. they will not taper a case.

Since the 30 carbine has a slight taper (.354 to .331) your "one-diameter" carbide die is probably picking a median which may leave the case mouth a little large and give the FCD die problems.

If you can find a carbon steel die to size a few cases and then try the FCD, it may answer the question as to whether your problem is in the carbide sizing die or the Factory Crimp Die.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I loaded up about 500 rnds of 30 carbine today I am using the FCD.

I seem to get better accuracy with it then without it.

 

[zeke]

mkl-don't have a 30M1 steel die, but the RCBS die doesn't just size to one diam. It also sizes by steel on the top part of the case, resulting in a case sized with a taper.

Am coming more to believe LEE just had some bad dies go out, will call them next week.

Peter-can i ask what powder, primer and bullet you're using?

Thanks guys, it be appreciated. Was going to sell all the brass, bullets, a case of Win factory loads, mags and dies. Till i checked the current prices and figured it was cost effective to buy another carbine (one with a barrel in excellent condition).

 

[Peter M. Eick]

110 fmjs from Magtec. CBC brass trimmed to 1.285. cci400 primers, 14.2 grns of H110 loaded to 1.6800 col. Light FCD crimp at the end.

I was shooting 13.8 grns but found that to be just a touch too weak to run the action when dirty. I am trying 14.2 this time.

I don't want to beat up my Inland for just plinking.

By the way, in my notes I put down not to buy more magtec bullets. The base was off center and poorly formed. I don't expect much accuracy out of this load.

 

[EdgarEg]

What was the solution

Hello zeke. I am having the very same problem that you started this thread with on August 8, 2008. Please tell me how you resolved the problem.

 

[Maj Dad]

Voices From Beyond...

Ed, rc gave the correct response 2 yrs ago: you don't crimp 30 carbine, and a light taper crimp die is exactly what you need to remove the bell. You can use a finely-adjusted seater/roll-crimp die that comes with most all sets, but you have to be very careful not to roll the mouth over. I have done that, and they will not headspace and will not fire. I load 120 RNGC lead, 115 FMJ and an occasional JHP, and I lightly taper crimp them all.

 

[dogrunner]

Not so sure about that Maj..............I've loaded .30 C for way over 40 years and use scrounged GI brass liberated from Hood in the '60's...........Some of that stuff is quite hard and does not always resize to the correct dimensions. If you want to use the latter you've gotta do something. I tried Lee's old taper crimp die with mixed results but have come to rely on the FCD, using it as the final stage in my 550. Primary dies are an ancient set of RCBS, dated '67.

I also use Lyman's .311429, lubed with alox and sized to .308. That bullet WILL NOT seat correctly in some of those old springy cases and you've necessarily gotta correct it, hence the FCD. Less that die, some bullets would either seat deeper in the case on recoil (particularly on full auto) or work themselves loose and forward, leading to stoppages. If you apply that die properly you WILL NOT screw up the headspace on case mouth issue!

That brass is still good, I'm cheap, and I refuse to toss it!

All my ammo is fired thru a GI M/2 and reliability is at least as good as civilian or GI ball.

 

[ReloaderEd]

I had a ruger 30 carbine a few years ago, enjoyed shooting it and finally gave it to one of my son in laws.
I reloaded 30 carbine for an Inland M1 Carbine prior to that. Using 30 caliber plinkers I found it to be very accurate. The ruger however had to have almost the minimum case length or the cylinder would hang up.
I think the cases need to be pretty much the same length and within specification for the lee factory crimp die to work correctly. I always used a slight roll crimp so the plinkers would not work out during firing. I do consider the carbine one of the hardest calibers to reload. I just purchased almost a full set of factory crimp dies from Wideners will let you know what I find out!! be safe

 

[EdgarEg]

If I take the crimp die in my hand and turn it up-side-down and put a sized 30 carbine shell in it the shell will almost fall through the crimp die. It falls through until the head of the case is buried about an eighth of an inch into the crimp die. You have to turn the crimp die back right side up to get the case out of the crimp die.

I take this to mean there is something wrong with the crimp die, that the inner diameter is it too big around or the crimping part is too high in the die.

 

[Maj Dad]

dog,
My experience has led me to use the taper crimps on all pistol and 30 carbine - switched about 20 yrs ago. Lee dies are o.k. in some uses, but overall they did not satisfy me and I stopped using them most of them. I use GI brass also, couple thousand LC52 (not the Chinese, USGI) that I bought in the early 80s, bunch of other '50s & 60's GI, and lately the LC72 from CMP after shooting it. I have never had issues with the brass other than excessive crimping causing failures to fire when I used the standard seating die (Pacific, probably contemporaneous with your RCBS). I use the RCBS 115 gr semi-pointed GC bullet and GI ball pulldowns from CMP, with an RCBS taper crimp die (also on a 550) that gives me zero problems. You do have to pay attention when setting the TC die up that you don't adjust it to run the round too far in - that will give you the same problem as I had with the roll crimp die, but carefull setting will avoid issues. I don't mean to over-simplify or trash Lee (I use a lot of their stuff), just note that this approach has worked well for me. If Ed gets it straightened out & working, I'm all for it. I learned a long time ago to avoid making categorical statements: some words taste awful...

Cheers!

 

[jcwit]

I'll agree with Maj Dad except I use the Lee taper crimp dies with no problem. See no reason for the FCD in pistol or carbine cases. Rifle FCD is a whole different animal tho. I shoot a Lee cast bullet #311-92-1R plain base sized to .310 with 12 grains of 4227 powder. I get excellant accuracy with this load and no missfires.

 

[zeke]

EdgarEd-finally figured out it was me, not the Lee factory Crimp die. After buying two more of them, one of them dirtectly from Lee. Am now using the LFC to put light crimp on by realizing the die internal shifts slightly, kinda like a two step. Have never had any rifle LFC work like that. I can't think of a better way to describe it.

The Hornady fmj gives very good accuracy