Acera
Member
Another thread in Rifle Country got me thinking about a project and wanted to see if others had some input on it viability.
Melvin Johnson developed a cartridge and chambered it for the .30 carbine, the .22 Spitfire aka 5.7mm Johnson or MMJ 5.7mm Johnson
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Spitfire
This little round was an early example of what a number of companies like FN, HK and others have built firearms for under the PDW concept. Basically take a rifle cartridge case, neck it down to shoot a smaller, faster bullet. Push a 20-40gr +/- pill out in the 2,800+/- FPS range, with light recoil.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HK_4.6×30mm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4.38×30mm_Libra
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_5.7×28mm
Well while there is still a following of the Johnson designed cartridge, I feel it's day may have passed for gaining even a moderate following in the future.
My idea is take a solid rifle like the .30 carbine which has been re-chambered in a variety of other rounds from .22LR to 9mm para and chamber it in the .22 TCM. .30 carbines have been the basis for other rifles in both gas operated (since the 1940s) and blowback models (since at least the 1960s). So thinking it's pretty adaptable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_TCM
While this is still a proprietary cartridge owned by Rock Island Armory, I think it has potential as a short range varmint and small game hunting rifle as well as a personal defense weapon. Don't know when it becomes public for other makers to produce. Pretty sure Armscor is open to more business opportunities and sales, so licensing may be on the table.
My second selling point is that you can find a 1911 style pistol chambered for it that has proven to be popular among it's owners.
http://armscor.com/firearms/tcm-series/
Buds sells their combination .22 TCM/9mm pistol for under $700.
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...rmory+51961+TCM+TAC+Ultra+FS+Combo+-+22TCM9mm
And they even have a bolt action rifle in it.
http://www.shootingtimes.com/reviews/rock-island-armory-22tcm-review/
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/12/18/review-rock-island-arsenal-22-tcm-bolt-action-rifle/
My third point is that commercially produced ammunition is available for those that don't want to reload.
Next, if you do want to roll your own, the process is similar to the .300 Blackout and uses the same 5.56mm parent cartridge.
Also, some folks like the wood and blued steel rifles better than the more modern polymer/plastic/space age material look and design. This rifle would pay homage to the times and values of yesteryear.
More positive news is that the M1 Carbine is currently being made by a number of companies, so no need to use surplus GI issued rifles if you don't want to.
I have cut down 5.56mm cases, and they fit fine in a .30 carbine magazine, plenty of room to spare. Only did 3, so don't know how an entire 30 round magazine would work, but may buy a box of .22 TCM and check it out.
Finally, last reason I am thinking of right now (more may follow later) is the doom and gloom on the horizon that is forecast by many regarding our beloved MSRs. It seems to be based on looks, and not performance (color of skin, not content of character anyone??). Rifles like Rugers Mini-14 series were molested less than others in the past. This rifle would fit into that not-as-scary-to-liberals category.
For those folks that are less into firearms than most members here, who want a defensive rifle and pistol, but don't want a bunch of calibers and stuff this might be a strong selling point. Think of the 'if you could only have 3 guns' debate which is popular on the internet. One of these with the pistol and a shotgun. (Please, lets not get deep into that, just wrote this as an idea not a debate topic.)
I know herself, who loves her WWII IBM and dislikes her AR-15s would consider it for purchase.
OK THR, what say you????
Is this a good idea?
How bad of an idea is it?
Is it workable?
Know any good gunsmiths that might want to take on the project? Need someone to figure out gas pressure issues, weight of operating rod, spring strength and the multitude of other issues involved in a firearm design that I am not familiar with.
Also, has it been done? I can't find much.
.
Melvin Johnson developed a cartridge and chambered it for the .30 carbine, the .22 Spitfire aka 5.7mm Johnson or MMJ 5.7mm Johnson
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Spitfire
This little round was an early example of what a number of companies like FN, HK and others have built firearms for under the PDW concept. Basically take a rifle cartridge case, neck it down to shoot a smaller, faster bullet. Push a 20-40gr +/- pill out in the 2,800+/- FPS range, with light recoil.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HK_4.6×30mm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4.38×30mm_Libra
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_5.7×28mm
Well while there is still a following of the Johnson designed cartridge, I feel it's day may have passed for gaining even a moderate following in the future.
My idea is take a solid rifle like the .30 carbine which has been re-chambered in a variety of other rounds from .22LR to 9mm para and chamber it in the .22 TCM. .30 carbines have been the basis for other rifles in both gas operated (since the 1940s) and blowback models (since at least the 1960s). So thinking it's pretty adaptable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_TCM
While this is still a proprietary cartridge owned by Rock Island Armory, I think it has potential as a short range varmint and small game hunting rifle as well as a personal defense weapon. Don't know when it becomes public for other makers to produce. Pretty sure Armscor is open to more business opportunities and sales, so licensing may be on the table.
My second selling point is that you can find a 1911 style pistol chambered for it that has proven to be popular among it's owners.
http://armscor.com/firearms/tcm-series/
Buds sells their combination .22 TCM/9mm pistol for under $700.
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...rmory+51961+TCM+TAC+Ultra+FS+Combo+-+22TCM9mm
And they even have a bolt action rifle in it.
http://www.shootingtimes.com/reviews/rock-island-armory-22tcm-review/
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/12/18/review-rock-island-arsenal-22-tcm-bolt-action-rifle/
My third point is that commercially produced ammunition is available for those that don't want to reload.
Next, if you do want to roll your own, the process is similar to the .300 Blackout and uses the same 5.56mm parent cartridge.
Also, some folks like the wood and blued steel rifles better than the more modern polymer/plastic/space age material look and design. This rifle would pay homage to the times and values of yesteryear.
More positive news is that the M1 Carbine is currently being made by a number of companies, so no need to use surplus GI issued rifles if you don't want to.
I have cut down 5.56mm cases, and they fit fine in a .30 carbine magazine, plenty of room to spare. Only did 3, so don't know how an entire 30 round magazine would work, but may buy a box of .22 TCM and check it out.
Finally, last reason I am thinking of right now (more may follow later) is the doom and gloom on the horizon that is forecast by many regarding our beloved MSRs. It seems to be based on looks, and not performance (color of skin, not content of character anyone??). Rifles like Rugers Mini-14 series were molested less than others in the past. This rifle would fit into that not-as-scary-to-liberals category.
For those folks that are less into firearms than most members here, who want a defensive rifle and pistol, but don't want a bunch of calibers and stuff this might be a strong selling point. Think of the 'if you could only have 3 guns' debate which is popular on the internet. One of these with the pistol and a shotgun. (Please, lets not get deep into that, just wrote this as an idea not a debate topic.)
I know herself, who loves her WWII IBM and dislikes her AR-15s would consider it for purchase.
OK THR, what say you????
Is this a good idea?
How bad of an idea is it?
Is it workable?
Know any good gunsmiths that might want to take on the project? Need someone to figure out gas pressure issues, weight of operating rod, spring strength and the multitude of other issues involved in a firearm design that I am not familiar with.
Also, has it been done? I can't find much.
.