.30 Carbine?

[JShirley]

M2 .30 caliber ball is the standard .30-06 non-AP load for the Garand.

Ah, that's right. I was still thinking about the M2 Carbine.

 

[The Deer Hunter]

As I said previously, if big bears are a potential threat, carry something else. I'm more of a fan of rifles than shotguns, but if bears over 300 lbs might be encountered, a ghost ring or rifle-sighted 12 gauge with good slugs sounds like perfect medicine.

I have my 870 with a 20" smooth bore rifle sighted barrel that would fit the bill nicely. When I go in the woods with my father, we usually bring the 12 GA Stevens. But it does come down to the fact that I'm not incredibly concerned about bears, but that's the only thing I can imagine attacking me in the woods. I live in MA, and usually bum around central NH. Bears are present, but I haven't heard or seen of any.


From the sounds of it, the .30 Carbine isn't terribly under powered, but it will kill a deer. Once again, I plan on using this as a camp rifle and maybe some deer hunting. I don't worry about more than anything past 150 yards either, as it's mostly dense forest. If I get one, I'll reload for it too. It sounds much more viable than buying ammunition.

During my travels, I'll try to avoid VC and insurgents as best I can. It certainly sounds like they are lively little buggers.

 

[greyling22]

sks is a lot heavier. I have both, and would much rather carry the m1. and as many others have said, it's fine for smallish deer out to 100yds when loaded with a soft or hollow point. think of it as as 15-30 rounds of 9mm or 357. fmj ball ammo is suited only for tin cans. sks costs half as much. and a 30/30 or lever 44mag is a better hunting choice than either.

 

[The Deer Hunter]

Ok, just looking real quickly at some ballistic charts;

.30 Carbine:

Firing a 110gr. HP bullet, muzzle velocity is 1990 FPS, and 967 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle.

Firing a 110gr. SP, FPS and Energy is basically the same.

.357 Magnum:

Firing a 125gr. GDHP bullet, the muzzle velocity is 1450 FPS, with 584 ft. lbs of energy at the muzzle.

Firing a 170gr. GDSP bullet, muzzle velocity is 1180 FPS, with 526 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle.

44 Magnum:

Firing a 210 gr. GDHP, muzzle velocity is 1450 FPS, with 980 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle.

Firing a 270 gr. GDSP, muzzle velocity is 1250 FPS, with 937 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle.

9mm:

Firing a 115 GDHP, muzzle velocity is 1210 FPS, with 374 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle.

Firing a 147 gr. GDHP, muzzle velocity is 985 FPS, with 317 ft. lbs. of energy at the muzzle.


.357, 9mm, and .357 ballistics:http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/ammo.aspx

.30 Carbine: http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ballistics/30_carbine.html

The .30 Carbine is faster than the 44 magnum, has about the same muzzle energy. I know the .44 Magnum has a much heavier bullet.

What does this say about the knock down power of the .30 vs the 44 magnum? Considering the ft. lbs. are about the same, shouldn't it have similar knock down power?

 

[hwyman]

The 7.62x39 is less powerful than the 30-30 which is often discounted as ineffective for larger game....
Hunting rounds in 7.62x39 are very near most hunting rounds for the .30-30. .30-30 is good enough for deer and elk sized game and black bear at appropriate distances.

 

[Eric F]

What does this say about the knock down power of the .30 vs the 44 magnum? Considering the ft. lbs. are about the same, shouldn't it have similar knock down power?

No not at all there is a formula used by IDPA USPSA and ipsc called power factor this formula is used to determin fairness and to some extent as how heavy steel targets can be for a minimum knock down. The formula is bullet weight in grainsxspeed in fps/1000

So the 30 carbine gets a 218.9
the 44 geta a 304.5 with the little bullet. Energy basicaly means little in this equation but clearly the 44 will knock down things with more authority than the 30 carbine. Also the wound channel is much greater with the 44.

 

[The Deer Hunter]

No not at all there is a formula used by IDPA USPSA and ipsc called power factor this formula is used to determin fairness and to some extent as how heavy steel targets can be for a minimum knock down. The formula is bullet weight in grainsxspeed in fps/1000

So the 30 carbine gets a 218.9
the 44 geta a 304.5 with the little bullet. Energy basicaly means little in this equation but clearly the 44 will knock down things with more authority than the 30 carbine. Also the wound channel is much greater with the 44.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[targshooter]

There is always the Ruger Deerfield

I see a comparison between the M1 and the .44 magnum that does not take into account the 1650 fps the 270 grain .44 bullet gets out of a rifle barrel as with my Ruger Deerfield. The 240 grain bullet actually gets very close to 1800 fps. I often use this as a camp gun also, and it appears and handles very much like the M1. This is a much better deer slayer than any M1 Carbine load, as I can verify after killing several deer with the .44 mag fired from the Deerfield. I felt compelled to add this.

 

[TimboKhan]

Aside from it's effectiveness (or lack thereof) on bears, and aside from the fact that the carbine is pretty fun to shoot, and aside from the fact that I would feel perfectly comfortable using a .30 Carbine to defend myself from human predators, I still would choose the SKS. It is also effective on human predators, it is also pretty fun to shoot, and ballistically speaking, the more I can throw at a bear, the better.

The .30 carbine was never meant to be a rifle round, nor was it meant to be a pistol round. It was meant to provide "pistol-like" performance (for lack of a better desciptor) at ranges longer than the average guy could shoot a pistol. I don't know about you guys, but I can't hit reliably (or, really at all) at 100 yards with a 1911 or any other pistol you can name. I can do so with ease with a carbine. Now, if you want to argue if that concept is a good one or not, more power to you. Just realize that it was never meant to be anything but a 100-150 yard rifle.

Generally speaking, I enjoy the shooting the carbine. It is fun, doesn't beat you up, can produce reasonable accuracy and is generally just a cool gun. As far as the .30 Carbine cartridge, my favorite launcher for that round is a Ruger Blackhawk. I find it more enjoyable to shoot over the course of a day than a .357, and it makes a big, satisfying boom.

 

[The Deer Hunter]

I don't know about you guys, but I can't hit reliably (or, really at all) at 100 yards with a 1911 or any other pistol you can name.

I can barely make it onto the paper with most any pistol!

 

[USSR]

...what do you guys think about taking deer with the carbine?

Back to the OP. I would not hesitate to shoot deer with a .30 Carbine with either soft point or hollow point ammo, within the 50 yard distance that deer are normally hunted in where I live. Deer are just not that tough to kill.

Don

 

[The Deer Hunter]

Ok so from what I can see here the M1 Carbine isn't a really bad choice, but not the best choice. I will certainly be losing power compared to my .30-06, but I'm not really worried.

I really like the gun itself, and it looks like it would be a blast just to go to the range with as well.

Thanks guys.

 

[scottishclaymore]

The idea that you can't take decent game up to 200 lbs. with the 7.62x39 is not true, at least not in my experience. This last fall I dropped a 200 lb. boar in full run at forty yards. Maybe I should post up pictures sometimes. It can be done -- but it requires a certain amount of marksmanship on your part, too.

EDIT: Meant to mention this -- I wouldn't use the 7.62x39 for bear, that notwithstanding. I am taking my 12 ga. with slugs, as so many people have already said.

I don't think the US Government would issue a rifle that's an inadequate for killing.

Well, you know. Other than the M-16...

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

I will relegate my .30 caliber carbine to home defence with soft point ammunition. A tremendous home defence rifle.

If I should decide to go hunting I will do so with a deer rifle. My favorite will always be the venerable 30-06.

It should be understood that the .30 caliber carbine would be kind of foolish to take it beyind its capacity with a little 110 grain slug moving well below normal rifle velocity.

Nonetheless I find that venerable carbine an absolute pleasure to shoot.

 

[Rifleman 173]

Think of any bear like a D-10 tractor coming at you except this one has a bad attitude, sharp teeth and is hungry. Would you actually want to try to stop a D-10 with any carbine? I wouldn't. My first choice for taking out a bear would be an A-10 air strike. My minimum choice for shooting one with a rifle would be a .308 Winchester/7.62 NATO ammunition, scoped rifle and 500 yards range. Bears are big, fast and mean.

 

[The Deer Hunter]

I guess I'll have to get a bayonet, then.