30 gr. too much for 1860 Army?

[Magwa45]

Took my new Uberti 1860 Army to the range last week. After shooting my normal loads, I loaded up a cylinder with 30 grains per chamber. I had two chambers fire at once. That was a first! The loud discharge certainly gained my attention. A couple more rounds and the ram rod retaining piece came back on me. Just got to get that reattached. So I guess 30 gr. of Goes FFg is a little too much for the 1860 Army.

 

[Captain*kirk]

No, it's not. I've fired 35gr of Pyrodex through my Army numerous times with little trouble. Sounds like you had a chainfire, is all.

 

[makos_goods]

Magwa45,
Actually 30 grains is the "standard" load for an 1860 Army model, it's not heavy by anyone's estimation. If you had a chainfire it was probably either caused by a tube without a cap on it, or a loose fitting cap.

Can you describe the ram rod retaining piece?

Regards,
Mako

 

[Norton Commando]

I regularly shoot 30 grains by volume of Pyrodex Pistol powder, which is supposed to be equivalent to 30 grains of FFF black powder, in both my 1858 Remington and my 1860 Colt Army reproduction guns. My my seat-of-the-pants strain gauge says it's not overloaded. I even loaded up my genuine, but rickety, 1860 Colt Army with 30 granis of Pyrodex and shot it with no ill effects.



I believe FFF is the recommended powder for handguns, but I don't think the FF that you loaded caused the chain fire or ram rod problem.

Perhaps the chain fire was from the ball-end due to no sealant over the ball or between the ball and powder? Or, as Makos suggested, a capless nipple?

I'm stumped regarding the ram rod retaining piece; can you post a picture?

 

[Foto Joe]

You're not the first to lose ram retaining lug. I've had it happen on three guns.

Uberti '62 Police - typical charge is 16gr 3f
Pietta '60 Sheriff - typical charge is 30gr 3f
ASM 2nd Dragoon - typical charge is 30gr to 45gr 3f

As you can see from the 16gr charge on the '62 Police, it's not really the charge weight. That lug is dovetailed into the barrel and I'm thinkin' that the barrel isn't such a hard metal that it lends itself well to dovetailing a piece that gets pounded on a regular basis.

I've found that if I keep the screws tight on the loading levers, it reduces the amount of movement that they have when the gun goes off. This in turn reduces the amount of hammering that they can do on the retaining lug.

I'm assuming you found the lug. Wait until one of them deploys when you're shooting in pea gravel!

 

[andrewstorm]

30 gr

pyrodex pistol pellets made for cap n ball pistols are 30 grains and are recommended for all 44, 45 ,replicas fast loading at the range or keep em in a speed loader tube.most chain fires are from loose nipples or caps as hi speed photos have proven in one article ive seen,keep your hands behind the cylinder,also pellets are harder to ignite so use mag cci 11 caps or try 10s if the 11s fit loosely...also file the grove lightly on the loading lever latch,and see if the spring loaded cam on the loading lever goes further into the latch for a less recoil sensitive lockup ..........who ever owns that rickety old revolver in the photo above is an envyable man ,but i think id keeper loads light ,and wear out some itialian steele instead........

 

[Norton Commando]

I don't mean to belabor a point, but I can understand the concern about overloading a black powder hand gun. There are several 44 caliber hand guns on the Dixie Gun Works site that recommend 25 grains of powder and some even 22 grains. And these are beefy-looking steel framed guns: one is a Walker and the other is an 1858 Remington.

So is this recommendation linked to best accuracy, or to safety, or to...?

Jason

 

[mykeal]

Accuracy. Only.

This is something every black powder gun owner/operator should do with each and every gun. That's EACH gun, not just one example of each design.

Bench the gun and shoot 25 yard 3 to 5 shot groups. Use the same POA for every shot regardless of the POI; the issue is group size, not sight adjustment. Use the same size ball (or conical, if you really must) for every shot; in fact, weigh them and use only those that are within 1 grain of each other. Use the same lube, if any, the same filler, if any, the same wad, if any, the same grease, if any, and especially use the same loading technique (that is, the amount of force used to seat the projectile) for every shot. In fact, invest in and use a cylinder loading press. Then repeat, exactly the same but with 5 grains more, another 3 to 5 shot group. Keep shooting groups, increasing by 5 grains each time, until you reach the maximum amount you can cram in and still get the projectile in far enough that the cylinder can move into battery. The smallest group size is the most accurate load. It won't be the biggest load.

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

ditto mykeal. any .44 full size c&b revolver will digest 30gr 3f and rb.
however useing the much heavier Lee mold slug is increasing the pressure some so use discreetly.

 

[Foto Joe]

Case in point: My brass '51 44 Caliber "Navy" sic.

16gr of 3f Goex with 25gr of cornmeal to fill 'er the rest of the way up. That thing will tear the center out of a target in short order with that puny little load. Increase to 20-25gr and who knows where it'll hit.

 

[BigG]

I thought BP was always measured by Volume, not weight even though commonly referred to as "so many grains" it is understood to be thrown with a measure.

 

[arcticap]

That's true. For the purpose of discussion the grains are always volume measurements unless stated otherwise.
But it just so happens that "standard" 2F black powder has a volume grain measurement that equals its weight measurement in grains.
However some powders are denser or lighter, like Swiss, 3F or the subs which throws the weight system for a loop by making the weighed loads unequal for making easy conversions.
Therefore volumetric grains are the "normal" standard unit of measurement.
All of the sub powders seem to have been created based on their having an equal powder volume to black powder which makes volume measurement & conversion the simplest and most practical method.

 

[72coupe]

Magwa I think you are onto something with 30 grains being to much. In 1969 I had a beautiful AS 1860 Colt replica with silver plated trigger guard and back strap in a wooden case with flask and bullet mould.

After shooting it for only 30 days almost continuously during the day light hours of September it became very loose and sloppy.

 

[Magwa45]

I mean the lug on the bottom side of the barrel which holds up the seating device. I think it must have been a loose fitting cap, although I got some new nipples from TOW. I do mean to experiment with various cap brands. Just got to get that lug reinstalled.