300 blackout divergence. Vote here

[R.W.Dale]

It looks like the polling is surprisingly even.

Which says a lot for this rounds future with such a broad range of use and appeal

 

[Walkalong]

I am shooting Supersonic and enjoy it. Working on some hunting loads. I intend to try it Subsonic, but have not yet. I would like to have a suppressor on a gun one of these days, but always figured I would start with a .22 LR.

 

[benzy2]

I shoot both through mine, though not suppressed. I have a lot of pulled .308 bullets so getting an AR setup to run the components I own seems like a decent enough idea. I'd like to shoot suppressed but I don't see myself going through the NFA hassle. Its easy enough but I'm not that interested in a suppressor to deal with it.

 

[MCMXI]

The problem with the Blackout (for me) is that although you can shoot subsonic and supersonic interchangeably, the best setup for subsonic i.e. SBR/suppressed isn't the best setup for supersonic. So it's not really a one upper platform. The other problem is that suppressors add velocity to subsonic loads often pushing a 1,050fps load over 1,125fps. The only appeal to me is a suppressed SBR shooting my reloads. I have plenty of brass, powder and bullets and will eventually get around to building an SBR. I have an AAC 762-SDN-6 that will work great.

Full auto suppressed is even more fun!

http://youtu.be/J0quBMcD87U

 

[VVelox]

The second and what I'm noticing is gaining in popularity recently is Hunters shooting the cartridge as a modern AR friendly 30-30

7.62x39mm is much more similar to .30-30 Win. than .300BLK is. As some one who has built a AR pistol in it, 7.62x39mm is pleasantly AR friendly, even if taking oddly shaped magazines.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

I'm really wanting to get a Daniel Defense in .300 Blackout and pick up a 5.56 upper. Maybe something inexpensive but hopefully pretty decent, maybe a Core15. I have no military experience but I would trust a .300 Blackout a bit more for home-defense/zombie use than a 5.56, but the latter is a lot cheaper. I would run inexpensive 5.56 ammo for the bulk of training and enough BO to verify POA/POI and function, then keep the gun loaded with the latter for CQB/HD.

 

[Medusa]

Subsonic and suppressed 300 BLK for close-range work, say 100 meters and in. Supersonic and suppressed for a bit of longer reach. And if I would need even more range or punch, I would go to my other 300, the 300 Win Mag. The great advantage is the commonality with .223 (on AR platform I mean, magazines, bolt, etc), so I could use the .223 as lower-cost training round and the 300 as working round. If I would be a reloader, I could go with 223 brass as a base and 147 grain 308 bullets for somewhat cheaper solution.

 

[R.W.Dale]

7.62x39mm is much more similar to .30-30 Win. than .300BLK is. As some one who has built a AR pistol in it, 7.62x39mm is pleasantly AR friendly, even if taking oddly shaped magazines.

As someone who has build an ar Rifle in 7.62x39 I can tell you it's absolutely not ar friendly.


I don't care whom you source 7.63x39 mags from or what their stated capacity is they're reliably a 6-8 shot proposition at best

I know more about what. 7.62x 39 is capable of than just about anyone here. I've had a 26" barreled bench rifle in the caliber, I've wildcatted it, and I've used it on deer and coyote out to. 300yds.

Take it from me. 300 blk isn't THAT different from it performance wise, doubly so when compared to milktoast domestic under loaded factory x39 ammunition.

 

[cfullgraf]

Take it from me. 300 blk isn't THAT different from it performance wise, doubly so when compared to milktoast domestic under loaded factory x39 ammunition.

Correct.

From Advanced Armament's design criteria for the 300 BLK.

"Full power 115-125 grain ammunition matches the ballistics of the 7.62x39mm AK, and eclipses 5.56mm with much higher-mass projectiles for a more dramatic effect on the target. Or choose subsonic cartridges for optimal use with a sound suppressor - 220 grain Sierra OTM (open-tip match) bullets vastly outperforms a 9mm MP5-SD in penetration and long range accuracy."

Here is their web site on the 300 BLK.

http://300aacblackout.com

 

[Elkins45]

I bought a 16" barrel a couple of years ago just for the purpose of being able to shoot cast bullets in the AR platform, and my experimentation was mostly around how fast I could safely drive them and get decent accuracy. Then I bought a silencer...and a 10" upper to go with it. Now I have been experimenting with finding the best and heaviest cast bullet I can drive just below the sound barrier for maximum subsonic performance. I'm also trying to see if I can do this with plain based bullets to minimize cost even more. By eliminating the expense of gas checks I can reduce the per round cost by about $0.03. With plain based bullets my per/round reloaded cost is less than a dime a round.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Correct.



From Advanced Armament's design criteria for the 300 BLK.



"Full power 115-125 grain ammunition matches the ballistics of the 7.62x39mm AK, and eclipses 5.56mm with much higher-mass projectiles for a more dramatic effect on the target. Or choose subsonic cartridges for optimal use with a sound suppressor - 220 grain Sierra OTM (open-tip match) bullets vastly outperforms a 9mm MP5-SD in penetration and long range accuracy."



Here is their web site on the 300 BLK.



http://300aacblackout.com

Here's some of my own personal 7.62x39 data to support this.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-409365.html

Yes good Russian steel cased ammo is faster but what does that gain you with what could only be described as a primitive bullet. Domestic 7.62x39 gets you better bullets but like all "mm" cartridges loaded by American firms it's laughably under loaded.

 

[VVelox]

As someone who has build an ar Rifle in 7.62x39 I can tell you it's absolutely not ar friendly.


I don't care whom you source 7.63x39 mags from or what their stated capacity is they're reliably a 6-8 shot proposition at best

I know more about what. 7.62x 39 is capable of than just about anyone here. I've had a 26" barreled bench rifle in the caliber, I've wildcatted it, and I've used it on deer and coyote out to. 300yds.

Take it from me. 300 blk isn't THAT different from it performance wise, doubly so when compared to milktoast domestic under loaded factory x39 ammunition.

Never had an issue with mine and I can reliable chew through as much ammo as I want with it. If one is having a problem it means they have either a bad mag or something else is the problem.

 

[Tirod]

If AAC is saying that the ballistics of the .300BO are identical to the 7.62x39, that should be taken with a grain of salt. They are selling something.

What part of the ballistic curve is being matched? Physics demands that it cannot be directly identical thru it entire flight path. Therefore we are only capable of comparing it in it's EFFECTIVE range.

The current popularity of the cartridge is once again bringing out some fanboys making emotionally based comments about it. It can be popular, yes, it already demostrates that. Compared to other cartridges and capable of pushing off others from the retail shelf, quite possibly. I would not go so far as to say it will be dominant tho.

That is because the shooting public still requires range - which the .300BO cannot demonstrate to a greater degree. Other cartridges do that better. In the hunting world its defined as how far the bullet can still carry 1,000 foot pounds of force. The .300BO simply has less ability than the existing cartridges in the AR15.

It's origins were based on making it "legal" for 3 Gun competition in the early days, when .30 was required and that was used to prevent the AR15 from competing. It was already a point of controversy at the 1st SOF 3 Gun match at Columbia, MO, where it was disallowed. Only .30 cal battle rifles were allowed.

Since then, the rules changed, and AR's were allowed. which now dominate the competition. Where did that leave the .300? It was a wildcat then, became the Whisper, and is now marketed as the Blackout. Does it compete successfully? After all, it's been around since the 1980's.

Not at all. Competitors don't see any advantage. 3 Gun matches have targets from 200-500m. That is out of the .300BO effective range. Fail.

Supersonic it has a niche application in close range work under 200 meters because it carries less energy than either the .30-30 or 7.62x39 in hunting legal loads (not milsurp full metal jacket fodder.) That is not to say it can't be used, only that you have to live with it's limitations.

When AAC "reinvented" the round, it was specifically for suppressed use, their very specific niche market. They don't make money selling it as a supersonic round with no can attached. Saying it could be used for that is market justification which does support their projected sales.

My take is that you could do better with a rifled slug gun, which are capable of doing exactly the same - carry 1,000 footpounds of force to 200m before it's trajectory becomes a hindrance. If you are a great fan of the .300BO, compare those ballistics and get back to us why you think the .300 is "superior."

We are going to get into number to prove that, not simply repeating marketing hyperbole intended to sell the round to those who apparently miss that it has offsetting disadvantages. And those disadvantages are exactly why the 6.xmm shooters aren't relying on .300BO to do their intended work. The 6's carry 1,000 foot pounds an extra 100 to 150 yards further, and that is why the .300BO won't ever achieve "most popular" status.

It has a place, it's not all that. It will likely never see adoption as anyone's military loading, which can be said to have happened for at least one of the 6's.

 

[MCMXI]

Another problem with subsonic Blackout rounds is reliable expansion at low velocity. Folks like the high BC bullets such as the 220gr SMK and 208gr A-MAX but they tend to punch right through the target. I'd like to see some real world data showing bullets recovered from animals, even if the animal was DRT.

 

[tyeo098]

I ordered a 10.5" Barrel from MAS defense here and built my own little AR pistol tennis ball thing.

MAS Defense 300BLK Uppers Barrels: http://www.shop.masdefense.com/SALES-SPECIALS_c37.htm
They have like, REALLY good prices.

First AR Upper I've ever assembled. That was fun.

 

[R.W.Dale]

". If you are a great fan of the .300BO, compare those ballistics and get back to us why you think the .300 is "superior." "

Can you direct me to this slug gun ar15 that I can reload for pennies a round and weighs 6 lbs or so?

Lots of founds are "superior" to the 300blk, you stating this just proves you don't get it.

It's the first >22 ar round suitable for Bambi that doesn't require a bunch of specialized parts in Americas favorite bullet diameter.

It wins on that alone

 

[68wj]

It looks like the polling is surprisingly even.

Which says a lot for this rounds future with such a broad range of use and appeal

That is because you left off the "Not interested in using this round" option.

 

[Collector0311]

I've become a fan of this round.
Originally owned a 16"AAC upper that I swapped onto my LMT build. Sold that, and recently did a complete build on a DDM4V5.
My build intention was central Texas medium sized game hunting.
Recently completed, I'll be taking her out near Conroe for hogs over the 4th of July break. Just received an order of 250rds from Ozark Ordnance, 147gr FMJ supers. Anyone worked with them?
I do plan on suppressing down the road.
After leaving the military I had a ton of extra 5.56 mags of all sorts, and wanted to start reloading. Continuity of weapons/parts, as well as reloading components sold me on this round.
I've never taken a shot at game in CenTex that I would be uncomfortable making with the 300blk.

 

[Theohazard]

I didn't vote because the OP left out the option for "both suppressed subsonic and suppressed supersonic".

 

[R.W.Dale]

Here's some of my own personal 7.62x39 data to support this.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-409365.html

Yes good Russian steel cased ammo is faster but what does that gain you with what could only be described as a primitive bullet. Domestic 7.62x39 gets you better bullets but like all "mm" cartridges loaded by American firms it's laughably under loaded.

Forgive me for quoting myself but I'd like to go ahead and make the direct comparison of supersonic 300blk vs 7.62x39mm

http://www.shootingtimes.com/files/2012/09/300-Blackout_002.jpg

From a 16" "paratrooper" sks Remington 125g SP 7.62x39 went 2224 FPS. This is over 100 fps SLOWER than the rem 125g OTM load shooting times tested above.

In fact the .300 blk OTM is even faster than Remington's x39 load in my 20" ar15 @ 2300fps


Barnual/monarch 123g FMJ was the absolute fastest 7.62x39 factory ammo I ever found. In any given bbl length even going over published loads with my hand loading in STRONG small primed brass I couldn't match it

In a 16" barrel this load was good for 2344fps which STILL falls short of 300 blackout OTM

 

[tactikel]

My next upper will be .300 BLK. For use with 160 gr. round nose gas checked hard cast bullets. These group 1" at 50 yards from my '03-A3. I can shoot for under 8 cents a round. I may take it deer hunting ( close in shots, 100 yards max) with 125 gr SPs.

 

[TIMC]

Put 50 rounds through mine today, shot supersonic using the suppressor with 110 grain bullets and when I got done there was just a single hole in the bull that measured about and inch.

Yes I'm liking the supersonic rounds more and more every time I take it out. The sonic crack is still pretty quiet since even though it is supersonic it is still a fairly slow round.

Shoots great and a looker too!

 

[wally]

I ordered a 10.5" Barrel from MAS defense here and built my own little AR pistol tennis ball thing.

Invest in a SIG SB-15, you'll thank me latter. You can always sell it when your SBR stamp finally comes in.

I don't care whom you source 7.63x39 mags from or what their stated capacity is they're reliably a 6-8 shot proposition at best

Nonsense, most just need the spring from a real AK mag, the older ones may also need a new anti-tilt follower.

From a 16" "paratrooper" sks Remington 125g SP 7.62x39 went 2224 FPS. This is over 100 fps SLOWER than the rem 125g OTM load shooting times tested above.

Arguing about ~100-150 fps differences in different barrels is pointless, regardless of length.

 

[B!ngo]

I just built a (left handed!) 300 BLK but put it up for sale because I realize that I don't have as much time for reloading as I had hoped.
But that said I think people under-state the value of the round, particularly in the supersonic loading. It seems that it has plenty of power out to ranges that are practical for most hunting needs and firing range lengths, carries far more energy out to said ranges than a comparable 5.56 and still retains a huge breadth in speed, energy and sound loadings.
Further, albeit with only a few shots taken for function checking in my BLK with super and sub, there is something smooth and soft about the feel of the round. I was able to do a bit of a controlled experiment because I built two identical AR's, the only difference being the barrel/muzzle-device and when shooting them back to back the 300 BLK was a real joy.
I don't know how many people who pass judgement on the round have actually shot it but it seems like a case where it's more than the charts and graphs indicate.
B

 

[TIMC]

I think people under-state the value of the round, particularly in the supersonic loading. It seems that it has plenty of power out to ranges that are practical for most hunting needs and firing range lengths, carries far more energy out to said ranges than a comparable 5.56 and still retains a huge breadth in speed, energy and sound loadings.
Further, albeit with only a few shots taken for function checking in my BLK with super and sub, there is something smooth and soft about the feel of the round. I was able to do a bit of a controlled experiment because I built two identical AR's, the only difference being the barrel/muzzle-device and when shooting them back to back the 300 BLK was a real joy.
I don't know how many people who pass judgement on the round have actually shot it but it seems like a case where it's more than the charts and graphs indicate.
B

This has been my take on it, I have AR's in .223, 6/5 Grendel, .308, .50 Beowulf and now the .300 Blackout. While I use them all for different reasons they all do what I want them to very well. Do some of them overlap in what they can be used for? Well yes but that is not the point. I added the .3oo Blackout because I wanted another short range rifle that was compact and smooth shooting. The Grendel could take that category too if needed as well as the long range role and I really like the Grendel but the more I shoot the Blackout the more I like it. Something must be good about it; the .300 Blackout seems to be getting more and more popular.