300 WSM - Kimber Montana Vs Browning X-Bolt

[MCMXI]

bachekermooni, I think you made a great choice. I haven't got around to any serious load development yet, but all three Kimbers I have are sub moa rifles off the bench. Here's my .300 WSM and a five shot group at 100 yards. I really want to work up a load for this rifle using Barnes 168gr TTSX bullets and Varget but will have to wait a month or two once it cools off a bit.

 

[bachekermooni]

Beautiful. What scope is on it? I am thinking of putting on a Minox 3-15x50 with side focus, standard duplex reticle and then have a Kenton custom turret put on it.

I like the Hornady GMX better than the Barnes. Solid copper is too fouling - IMHO.

 

[CB900F]

Bach;

I'll advise you to avoid a scope that has an A/O for big game hunting. There are frequently split-second shot opportunities and if you don't have the optics focused correctly you literally won't clearly see your target. A good 3.5-10X is all you're really gonna need, honest. I hunt this territory all the time & have never felt that I needed more than 10X magnification. Resolution, oh hell yes, but there's no need for big X numbers.

My current go-to scope for this type of hunting is the Zeiss Conquest 3.5-10X with the Zeiss #43 reticle. That's the mil-dot. Both my custom 6.5 Swede and the .338 Winchester magnum wear it. The .30-06 has a Leupold tactical mil-dot on it and it's a 3-9X.

Do your range work & learn to use the mil-dots & you'll be golden even if the range is somewhat extended. Though in the very vast majority of cases you'll never need to shoot beyond 300 yards. Hunt smart, shoot good, and work yer butt off packin' out.

900F

 

[MCMXI]

What scope is on it? I like the Hornady GMX better than the Barnes. Solid copper is too fouling - IMHO

The scope (now discontinued) is a Zeiss Conquest 3.5-10x44mm MC with the RZ800 reticle. I've shot some Barnes TTSX and TSX bullets through my Model 70 in .300 Win Mag and haven't noticed excessive fouling. I have some really good copper removing solvent so it's not a big deal to me. I like the TTSX bullets so will stick with those.

 

[ttheel]

I was between a Zeiss 3.5-10x44 and a Leupold VX 3 3.5-10x50 for my 300 WSM. I went with the Leupold partly because of the extra eye relief the Leupold offers on lower magnification settings. The 300 will buck and the extra eye relief was important to me.

 

[bachekermooni]

Thanks all. Then perhaps my B&L (not Bushnell) Elite 4200 2.5-10x40 should be used - except for its reticle? My be the Minox 2-10x with the XR DBC?

900F - How often do you have to shoot beyond 300 yards? Should I carry my 308 as the primary Rifle?

I just got back from Cabela's. The Zeiss HD5 has almost as large of an ocular lens as the 42mm objective !!!

 

[MCMXI]

The Zeiss HD5 has almost as large of an ocular lens as the 42mm objective !!!

I'm thinking about an HD5 2-10x42mm with the RZ600 reticle for my Model 70 EW in .308 Win. I've found that scopes with an eye relief of around 3.5" work best on the 8400 WSM models. The reason why I have a 3.5-10x44mm on mine rather than the 3-9x40mm model that I tried to mount is that the latter one has 4" of eye relief and I can't get the scope far enough forward. I had to put that scope on the 8400 Talkeetna where it works just fine.

 

[bachekermooni]

1858: I like that scope. I just looked thru its bigger brother at Cabelas a couple of hours ago. Its length and weight bother me a tad. But I love the reticle. The reason I like the Minox is the length (only 12"), and the weight, 12 oz. The 4" eye relief - a bit much for the 8400 - ouch. I am going to look at the Talley one-piece light-weights to see if they can aid in mounting that scope forward enough.

 

[MCMXI]

bachekermooni, I use Talley stainless rings and bases and the scope as shown is in the perfect position for me, and you can see there's less than an 1/8" between the back of the rear ring and the ocular bell. A scope with 4" of eye relief simply doesn't work for me on that rifle or my 84M.

 

[bachekermooni]

Noticed that and the Talley rings and bases. I was referring to their one-piece alum mounts. I have then on the 84M. The ring part is offset to one side. This allows for the scope to be mounted forward or back. They do not have a pic on their side, but here is one from Midway:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/33...imber-8400-8x-40-screws-matte-high?cm_vc=S014

Talley mentions "offset" mounts and I will try to find out what that means tomorrow.

PS - I am just trying to learn from an experienced shooter. I hope I am not coming off as argumentative.

 

[CB900F]

Bach;

Both of my Zeiss's are mounted in Talley lightweight ring/base units. A large amount of my other stuff is also in Talley's equipment. And I'd at least take a look at Nikon's Monarch 3 2.5-10X mil-dot, it might very well surprise you. I've always had very good results with Nikon Monarch scopes & have several, no complaints.

900F

 

[MCMXI]

I hope I am not coming off as argumentative.

Not at all ... I'm happy to help you out in any way I can and save you from acquiring a box of parts that you don't use ... I have more than one of those boxes by the way. There isn't a lot of room on the rear of the reciever so I don't think a Talley aluminum one-piece ring/base will help much. My first attempt with this rifle and the Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40mm was to use a one-piece aluminum Picatinny base from EGW with Seekins aluminum rings (see below). I could move the scope as far forward as I wanted but the scope sat too high even with low rings, and I realized that I didn't like the aesthetics of a "tactical" set up on a classic hunting rifle.



The reason why I was able to mount the Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40mm on the Talkeetna is that the rear of the receiver is longer where the rear base mounts and the mounting holes are further forward. All is this is academic if you buy or have a scope with 3.5" of eye relief. Here's the Talkeetna for comparison.

 

[bachekermooni]

Thanks.
900: My 308 84M wears the Talleys along with the old Nikon Monarch 2-7x32. I love the set up and am quite comfortable taking 300 yard shots at deer-sized game. I will look at the Nikon.
1858: Great setup with the Talkeetna. I appreciate the advise and sharing of information.

 

[Lloyd Smale]

out of the two id probably go browning. The kimber is definatly the better looking of the two. Ive got a abolt in 300 wsm and its a reall good shooter and in my opinion hands down better looking then an xbolt but id be leary of a kimber. Just to many horror storys on line about accuracy problems with them. The only real experience i have with them is a buddy has the little lightweight stainless 308 that set him back a grand and took a ton of load developement to get to even shoot 1.5 inch at a 100 yards. Id expect a 1000 dollar gun to do better.

 

[MCMXI]

but id be leary of a kimber. Just to many horror storys on line about accuracy problems with them.

I haven't found this to be the case at all. All three of my Kimbers have been sub moa with factory ammunition and/or reloads. I wouldn't be surprised if the supposed accuracy issues are due to the fact that Kimber rifles are light compared to most other makes, and it takes a lot more concentration, technique and practice to shoot them well. I'm still trying to master them but even the 84M that had to be sent back due to a gouge in the chamber shot sub moa out of the box with Remington 150gr CLUB factory ammunition (top target) and once the new barrel was installed still shot sub moa with factory ammunition (bottom target).

 

[Kachok]

I would not go with the Browning in any highly overbore magnum caliber, their barrels are designed NOT to be changed so if you do any real volume of shooting you are in for a nasty surprise. Most gunsmiths won't touch them, the few that do cannot guarantee their work because of the extruded metal actions. I have a Browning but it is a rather mild 7mm-08.
Winchester makes a fantastic rifle I love mine, it has a few quarks but all stuff I can live with. I cannot speak for Kimber other then to say they have a good reputation for build quality, though accuracy has been hit or miss over the years.
Tikka makes a super accurate rifle, great build quality too, but at 6lbs and with a crappy recoil pad a 300 magnum could be rather painful without some modification.

 

[Casefull]

Thanks everyone. I just pickup a used Kimber 8400 Montana 300 WSM. It should be here by end of the week.

Good luck with the new rifle and your elk hunt out here. I picked up the same rifle in 300wsm, used, last month. I have been working up loads for it with good results. I had to touch up the feed ramp a little but the rest of the rifle is fine. BTW I got a nice bull in the Big Belts last fall (with the 308 Montana). Let me know if you want any load data.

 

[bachekermooni]

Good luck with the new rifle and your elk hunt out here. I picked up the same rifle in 300wsm, used, last month. I have been working up loads for it with good results. I had to touch up the feed ramp a little but the rest of the rifle is fine. BTW I got a nice bull in the Big Belts last fall (with the 308 Montana). Let me know if you want any load data.

Great. I would love to get load information. Right now I need primers and powder. I have found cases. I am even considering shooting factory ammo
Please do not tell me 308 is good enough for Elk out there ... I was told that shots could easily reach 500+ yards and I am not sure 308 should be used beyond 400 yards for Elk. But, I feel more confident with a 300 WSM. It takes a lot of resources to go on such a hunt. I would hate not to be able to take a shot.

 

[CB900F]

Bach;

I presume you're on a guided hunt? If so, your guide should be able to get you within 300 yards of a good elk. Shot placement trumps everything else, magnums, wonder bullets, bullet weight, and gee-whiz guns. Do your range work, shoot at an actual 300 yards, know your bullet drop, you'll be fine.

900F

 

[bachekermooni]

Bach;

I presume you're on a guided hunt? If so, your guide should be able to get you within 300 yards of a good elk. Shot placement trumps everything else, magnums, wonder bullets, bullet weight, and gee-whiz guns. Do your range work, shoot at an actual 300 yards, know your bullet drop, you'll be fine.

900F

Thanks 900. Your advise is very well taken. Not guided by a Pro guide. But friends who have lived and hunted there for decades. They mentioned 308 would be fine, but they all shot 300 WM. So I thought perhaps a 300 WSM should be in order. I will have my 308 (with Hornady 165 IB pills) with me as well. I simply do not want to take a chance of having only one rifle along - a little slip and ... I am driving there so I have plenty of room.

 

[bachekermooni]

Well ... She is here. As soon as I get a chance to get a scope mounted, I will post pics. Its Bullseye practice week. State match is on Sun

 

[bachekermooni]

Range Report

OK. After shooting my 2700 state match, I run over to the other 50 yard range to see what she can do. These are shots 1 - 8 on a clean barrel. The Kimber is topped off with my "trusty" B & L Elite 4200 2.5-10x. Actually it can not focus at 50 yards at 10x. But I kept it on 10x

Was scared to death on the first shot. I think I was 5 in off of the scope - barely seeing the target I survived. Shots two and three came a few seconds later - touching. A few minutes go by while the range was called safe for target check. I make a scope adjust - to the right. Shots 4,5 darn near same whole. You can now fry an egg on the barrel. Shots 6,7 follow right after - a tad to the left and almost same hole. They want to call the range safe, and I have to make this a 5-shot group. I hurried the last one in - always a bad idea. The barrel is now glowing (just kidding). Really - you can not touch it.

The ammo? Win Super X 150 gr power-point - the cheapest I could find.



I have shot a few rifles and shotguns. But nothing had ever "shot the sole off my boots" - until today. Once I got up to go get the target after the last shot, I noticed one leg was shorter than the other. I look down, and sure enough the sole was blown off my right boot. Check it out. I hope this does not happen in the field

 

[788Ham]

Boy, that must be some muzzle blast, to blow the soles off your boots! Either that, or you're bracing too hard waiting for the recoil ! Ha

 

[bachekermooni]

I am going to the range this weekend with my handloads (norma brass, Hornady 165 gr IB, 68.0 gr Ramshot hunter, and CCI Mag primer). Will report back the results on a new thread.

Best.

 

[Casefull]

HA! They kick don't they. I was having trouble getting mine to group until I pushed the load to max and now it groups great. Rip snorting round for sure.